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Israeli Motivations (pg. 2)
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| CHRles |
Correct. Gaza is under a blockade as a result of suicide bombings carried out in previous years, and constant rocket attacks (as primitive as they may be) aimed at the Israeli population.
This past Thursday over 80 rockets were fired from Gaza towards Israeli, indiscriminately, and this happened on a daily basis. Just b/c a lot of Israelis didnt die doesnt mean that there weren't any injured, or any people who started panicking.
Israel uses its shelters to protect its citizens, and has first rate hospitals. Hamas uses its shelters and tunnels to smuggle weapons, and deliberately hides some of them in school zones.
Hamas is getting what it deserves. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
you have it backwards as usual |
Good point. Wait. No point. Excuse me. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by CHRles
Hamas is getting what it deserves. |
Likewise, Israel gets what it deserves. Do you actually think blockading Gaza is going to somehow make the Palestinians realize the error of their ways...LOL...Their economy is destroyed. What do you think young Palestinian men are going to do? Beg on the streets? No, their going to be militants. You and Q fail at one thing. One important thing. As Sun Tzu said, "Know your enemy." Or rather, us being mere third party observers..."Understand why one fights." Neither of you have even attempted to understand why Palestinians fight. I am not here to extol the virtues of Hamas, but both of your fail to apply the same standards to BOTH sides. Both sides have done horrid acts, and yet, both you give all benefit of the doubt to Israel. I find contemporary conservatism rife with hypocrisy, which is clearly apparent in these discussions on Israel/Palestine. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Likewise, Israel gets what it deserves. Do you actually think blockading Gaza is going to somehow make the Palestinians realize the error of their ways...LOL...Their economy is destroyed. |
Israeli restraint, when practiced, has been met with contempt and additional Hamas and Hamas-tolerated strikes against civilians. The blockade serves a real strategic and understated purpose;
"There is every reason to believe that Israel's economic siege against Gaza is misguided, but not for an essential cruelty, but rather because Hamas taxes collected on the influx of goods imported through tunnels from Egyptian territory have subsidized and cemented Hamas rule."
-Bradley Burston |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Israeli restraint, when practiced, has been met with contempt and additional Hamas and Hamas-tolerated strikes against civilians. The blockade serves a real strategic and understated purpose;
"There is every reason to believe that Israel's economic siege against Gaza is misguided, but not for an essential cruelty, but rather because Hamas taxes collected on the influx of goods imported through tunnels from Egyptian territory have subsidized and cemented Hamas rule."
-Bradley Burston |
LOL, the blockade is an effort to destroy Hamas's tax revenue? LOL... |
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| The17sss |
| it's "A" purpose, not "THE" purpose |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
it's "A" purpose, not "THE" purpose |
Hamas sure is losing support huh?:stongue: |
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| Lemonad |
Just a hunch, but could this all have something to do with S-300 sale to Iran?
I mean Israel was threatening to destroy them before they were delivered but rather than attacking directly, it was probably easier to attack the proxy and hope to get Iran involved?
I mean Hamas fired rockets before, but never has Israel carelessly killed so many civilians... maybe to piss Iran off more. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lemonad
but never has Israel carelessly killed so many civilians... |
Lebanon |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| Q5, regardless of hamas' actions (whatever they might be) israel shouldn't be killing people by the hundreds in retaliation. |
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| pmoisse |
Also, wasn't Hamas elected by the people (for good or bad)?
Everyone ignores their elected government. Nobody shows the slightest hint of respect to the will of the people, and that includes the blockade. I'm not saying that Hamas is right in firing rockets into Israel - both sides are wrong, and both are the "victims" to different degrees.
I think that the IDF's use of force is excessive, especially when they have such a vaunted special forces group who could likely go in and pick off people one by one instead of by way of helicopter rockets that also happen to kill innocents. If they wanted to maintain the moral high ground in all this, they've failed once again just like in Lebanon.
Sadly I think this is going to get far worse before it gets better. I think that the IDF is going to keep pushing until Jan 20th since they can treat this transition in the US Gov't as a carte blanche to do whatever they want. This also affects their own elections around the same time.
Also, throughout history, whenever a society has been oppresed and fought back, they've been hailed as heroes (Warsaw ghetto resistance, Contra's in Nicaraugua etc). I guess it really does come down to which side of the gun you're on to be considered a freedomfighter or terrorist.
There was a solution offered in the Simpsons movie:
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| pmoisse |
LINK to BBC article
| quote: | Israel says it is ready for "long weeks of action" as it continues its fiercest air assault on Gaza for decades to stamp out militant rocket attacks.
Palestinian officials say 10 people died in the latest attacks, taking the death toll to over 360 since Saturday. Four Israelis have died in rocket fire.
Israeli Interior Minister Meir Sheetrit rejected any ceasefire until the threat of rockets was removed completely.
A UN human rights monitor accused Israel of "shocking atrocities".
Richard Falk - the special rapporteur for human rights in the Palestinian territories - said the international community must put more pressure on Israel to end its attacks on Gaza.
"Israel is committing a shocking series of atrocities by using modern weaponry against a defenceless population - attacking a population that has been enduring a severe blockade for many months," Mr Falk said in a BBC interview.
The UN says at least 62 of the Palestinians killed so far have been women and children, and it is calling for an investigation into attacks which causing heavy civilian casualties.
Coastal clash
Israeli jets attacked targets linked to the Hamas movement, which controls the Gaza Strip, for a fourth day, hitting a number of government buildings and security installations.
Forty people were said to have been wounded in Tuesday's raids.
"The Israeli army must not stop the operation before breaking the will of the Palestinians, of Hamas, to continue to fire at Israel," Mr Sheetrit told Israel Radio.
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has called for an immediate ceasefire
The Israeli military "has made preparations for long weeks of action," added Matan Vilnai, a deputy defence minister, in another interview.
One air strike on Tuesday killed two sisters, the oldest aged 11, riding in a donkey cart in Beit Hanoun, northern Gaza, Palestinian medical sources said.
Separately, Israeli naval vessels confronted pro-Palestinian activists seeking to break the Gaza blockade by boat about 45 miles (70 kilometres) off the Israeli coast in international waters.
The activists said one vessel had rammed them after they ignored warnings to turn back. Their boat, carrying 3.5 tonnes of medical aid, is now trying to reach Lebanon.
Israel has massed forces along the boundary with Gaza and political leaders have not ruled out ground operations.
The Egyptian-Gaza border was sealed on Tuesday morning after trucks carrying aid and some wounded Palestinians were allowed to cross on Monday.
European Union foreign ministers are scheduled to to meet in Paris later (1730 GMT) to discuss the escalating crisis.
The meeting, hosted by French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner, is expected to consider the idea of an humanitarian aid corridor, and how to bring additional aid to Gaza's beleaguered 1.5m population.
Angry protests
Dozens of centres of Hamas strength, including security compounds, government offices and tunnels into Egypt, have been hit since Israel started its massive bombing campaign on Saturday morning.
Palestinian children search the ruins of a destroyed house following an Israeli air strike in the northern Gaza Strip, 29 December 2008
Israel says its aim is to end the rocket attacks by Hamas-linked militants - of which there have more than 60 since Monday morning.
There have been angry protests against the offensive in many cities across the Arab world and in several European capitals.
The strikes began less than a week after the expiry of a six-month-long ceasefire deal with Hamas, which has controlled Gaza since 2007.
Analysts say Israeli political leaders were under pressure to act against rocket fire with a general election looming in early February.
Israel dismantled its strategic settlements and military bases in Gaza in 2005 but has kept tight control over access in and out of the narrow coastal strip and its airspace. |
So here you have the other side of the coin - the IDF with a hard-on to reject any ceasefire's that are proposed. Really mature.
Turning away medecine? Classy.
Like I said in my previous post, I don't support either side in this show, but if Israel wanted to maintain any kind of moral high-ground, they've blown it. |
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