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A low budget vocal recording set up for home - your thoughts?
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| Stephen Wiley |
Ok - This suggestion was from somebody who really knows a lot about engineering, i mean a lot. He lives in L.A. and has worked with some very well known R&B artists and been around the block. I gave him my budget, and he recommended this. Your opinions are welcomed and encouraged. I'm just going to quote what he told me. I told him I'd like to keep it under $400 but that I would go to $600 IF it was really worth it (I'm all about "bang for your buck" gear). In reality, are people really going to be able to tell a difference after a track has been hacked down to 320kbps? Thanks guys. Here's what he said.....
"First off, no mic pre under $1000 is worth a damn. Believe me, I tried for years to find something that was above the common DAW / mackie type mixer pre for under and it didnt work. You really dont wanna know what I ended up spending on one.
That being said and your budget being stated I would suggest you get a small analog mixer for the analog pre ($60-100) and eq like this
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHXENTX802
take the fx output of the channel you are recording and send it to an alesis 3630 compressor ($50 used on craigslist... more on the used part in a sec)
Output the compressor to the input of your DAW.
Mic wise, the MXR 990 is a great mic. Of all the MXR mics, the chinese actually got the capsule correct on this one. The only bad part is that it can't take a ton of spl. I only had it crap out on me once though, I was working with an R&B artist who was really young and had a set of pipes on her that was unreal. I recorded her for 10 hours straight and she never even stopped for water. If you run into the same thing, tell the artist to back off the mic. Mic is $60 new.
Buy your mogami mic cable from redco.com - won't be more than $30. Retard Center will try to get you for $100.
DR stand - $40. Stedman pop filter - $30. Less than $300 after you grab some packing blankets and nails to hang em up.
The reason I say buy the compressor used is because they don't make them anymore and its a simple and really nice sounding compressor and easy to use. Aside from the mic, honestly, I say try to get all this used. Im sure that you, like a lot of other people, have worries and whatnot about used gear, but please try to be real with yourself. You, me and everybody else are not gonna do music for the rest of our lives and at some point this stuff is gonna get sold. Unless you are buying gear that will increase in value over time (Neve, Sontec, Martek, Api, Quad 8, etc) this stuff is not gonna be worth much. You should try to get it for as cheap as possible. Regardless, I tried to outline it in such a way that if you wanted to buy new anyways, you wouldn't spend your entire budget and you could still buy me a 40 at the end of the day." |
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| mzvirbulis |
In regards to the mp3 data compression, 320kbps is good at what it does. If most dj's are using it as they're format choice and playing on systems the distortion factor is quite low for us human's to percieve any difference.
Also to mention the codec plays a role so its best to use a good codec from PCM.
Cheers |
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| Kismet7 |
| I'd spend $50-$100 and track vocals professionally at a Studio using high end equipment. The economy is down the drain and studios are hurting for business, and you can easily get good amount of hours in a studio for not much money. If your that far along in your productions to be making vocal tracks then just get the first few professionally tracked and when you actually make some money, get your own gear for tracking vocals without skimping. No point in going cheap on vocal stuff. |
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| StephenWiley |
| It is for experimentation purposes only. I'm not at the point where I need studio time. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stephen Wiley
Ok - This suggestion was from somebody who really knows a lot about engineering, i mean a lot. He lives in L.A. and has worked with some very well known R&B artists and been around the block. I gave him my budget, and he recommended this.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHXENTX802
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Well, I don't have any names to drop and I'm not a big-name producer, but I have been playing and recording since before most of you were born and I do a lot of vocal recording in my home studio. Here are my thoughts.
1) I don't care who he says he's worked with, but your engineering friend is a moron. No engineer with any credibility is going to recommend buying a $60 Behringer mixing board to use as a mic pre for recording OR a $1000+ preamp and tell you to ignore everything in between. I'm still having a good laugh at that one. Especially when you consider pres like the highly acclaimed FMR RNP, JoeMeek ThreeQ, and Studio Project VTB1. All excellent preamps, all widely used in pro and project studios around the world, and all within your price range (RNP is near the high end of your budget, though). Some of the ART preamps/channel strips are pretty nice as well and will give you added features that will give you some flexibility. Behringer makes crap quality equipment for recording and about the best advice you can get is to keep anything with the Behringer name out of your recorded signal path (with the possible exception of their microphones). Their boards and pres are noisy and will just make it more difficult for you to get a good SNR. Don't get me wrong - Behringer gives you a lot of bang for your buck and some of their stuff is great for live use where noise isn't as much of an issue, but keep that stuff out of your signal path when recording. BTW, I use one of their headphone distribution amps and love it, so I'm not just brand-bashing here.
2) The MXL 990 is alright (yes, I've used one) and worth the money, but there are many decent mics in the sub-$200 range (esp. if you consider used mics), including the Rode NT1A, Studio Projects B1, etc. One MXL mic that has gotten a LOT of attention recently is the MXL SP-1. I've never owned or used one, but I keep seeing it mentioned as one of the best mics under $100 and it's only $40! Might be worth looking at.
3) The most important part of any vocal recording is the vocalist. A great vocalist can make a $100 preamp and $40 mic sound like you spent a million bucks, whereas a bad vocalist will make a Neumann U87 and Avalon preamp sound like garbage. |
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| StephenWiley |
| Thanks for the suggestions cryophonik (and everybody else too). I'm def. going to look into what you have suggested and try to get as many opinions as possible. Also, what are your thoughts on running it through that alesis compressor my friend suggested? I basically want a set up that will allow me to record house and trance vocals from my bedroom that are good enough to be release material (and hopefully better than the norm). I'm from Nashville, so there are vocalists all over the place here. I'll have to do some culture teaching but I guarantee you I'm gonna find some gems. |
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| Freak |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Well, I don't have any names to drop and I'm not a big-name producer, but I have been playing and recording since before most of you were born and I do a lot of vocal recording in my home studio. Here are my thoughts.
1) I don't care who he says he's worked with, but your engineering friend is a moron. No engineer with any credibility is going to recommend buying a $60 Behringer mixing board to use as a mic pre for recording OR a $1000+ preamp and tell you to ignore everything in between. I'm still having a good laugh at that one. Especially when you consider pres like the highly acclaimed FMR RNP, JoeMeek ThreeQ, and Studio Project VTB1. All excellent preamps, all widely used in pro and project studios around the world, and all within your price range (RNP is near the high end of your budget, though). Some of the ART preamps/channel strips are pretty nice as well and will give you added features that will give you some flexibility. Behringer makes crap quality equipment for recording and about the best advice you can get is to keep anything with the Behringer name out of your recorded signal path (with the possible exception of their microphones). Their boards and pres are noisy and will just make it more difficult for you to get a good SNR. Don't get me wrong - Behringer gives you a lot of bang for your buck and some of their stuff is great for live use where noise isn't as much of an issue, but keep that stuff out of your signal path when recording. BTW, I use one of their headphone distribution amps and love it, so I'm not just brand-bashing here.
3) The most important part of any vocal recording is the vocalist. A great vocalist can make a $100 preamp and $40 mic sound like you spent a million bucks, whereas a bad vocalist will make a Neumann U87 and Avalon preamp sound like garbage. |
Beat me to it.
Absolutely spot on- the guy is for the most part talking horsecrap.
The number one top piece of gear is the singer...
You would be amazed at the results you can get with an Sm58, a pop shield made from a coat hanger and some pantyhose, a decent singer and just a little enginering knowledge.... please don't go thinking you NEED a $xhundred mic, and a $1000+ preamp and a fancy cable to record vocals well.
The alesis 3630 is a good compressor, and an utter bargain for what you can get them for now. It also has the all important sidechain/key input for vocal de-essing if you need to.
Nothing wrong with an original behringer composer pro compressor in a home studio- also very cheap to buy, and made before behringer severely cut the quality of their gear and subsequently reputation.
There is tonnes of vintage and used gear out there that is really great....don't overlook it. |
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| cryophonik |
I use a little a compression when tracking vox to minimize "overs", but you have to be very careful when doing it so nothing gets "squashed" in the process - that can easily ruin a take. I also use a little bit of de-essing when tracking, but generally speaking, you're best avoiding or minimizing doing anything destructive during the tracking process and, instead, doing your compression, etc. after the tracks are printed. I try to avoid doing anything destructive to vocal tracks until the final mixdown and I typically work on a comp'ed version of the vocal track(s), rather than the original, just in case...
I've got a good friend in Nashville who is an outstanding singer/songwriter. I used to play bass in her band and actually produced a half dozen or so of her songs. You can hear one of those songs at her myspace:
www.myspace.com/rachiesantos
Track 4 - "Last Night" (unmastered and myspace quality :mad: )
I played bass, keys, and sequenced the drums on it and we recorded the vox in my home studio using a Rode NTK and a JoeMeek OneQ. The reason I mention the song and that equipment is that you might be able to pick up that same combo for around $600 used. I highly recommend the JoeMeek OneQ - excellent pre, built-in opto-compressor, de-esser, parametric EQ, etc. It's very versatile for a home studio and sounds incredible.
Also, you could try to get Rachael to sing on your songs, but she doesn't like EDM (believe me, I tried many times!). You'd have to fool her by getting her to write one of her urban/soul tunes at around 128bpm and remix it. :p |
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| cryophonik |
Just found this combo on eBay - looks like a great deal.
I owned the ThreeQ before I bought my OneQ and it's a nice little preamp with a compressor and EQ. Plus it includes a JM condenser, pop filter, shock mount, cable, and case - all within your budget. |
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| Lana |
I have heard lots of good stuff about the sm58 mic.
But I when reading the Shure Sm58 reviews I did find another mic, Behringer XM8500, and boy it gets good reviews from people. And it is CHEAP mic. In Ebay 25€ (I think it's about same in dollars, right?).
Until now I have been using some crap Sony mic and the result did still sound good, even in a real club... But I did use some effects on my vocals. |
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| Owsey2008 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Just found this combo on eBay - looks like a great deal.
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Tempted to click "buy it now"... |
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| Eldritch |
| quote: | Originally posted by StephenWiley
Also, what are your thoughts on running it through that alesis compressor my friend suggested? |
I would skip the compressor. I have yet to get any clipping during vocal recording. If you setup your preamp gain carefully, you won't need any compression. Compression done during the recording stage can't be undone later, keep that in mind also.
With the increased headroom of 24-bit recording compressing the input isn't as crucial like back in the 16-bit days.
When you have decided on a mic and pre amp you really should spend the rest of the money on acoustic treatment and quieter cooling for your computer. Pop filters and cables aren't important. Any decent cable and basic pop filter will do. Most of the difference between cheap and expensive cables is the durability, not audio quality. |
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