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The separation of bank and state (pg. 2)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
i just typed out a long response before i realised, what's the point? some people are so desperate to cling to their ideology over empirical evidence and historical fact that there's just no hope for them.
the notion that a multitude of currencies would be good for anyone is complete nonsense. |
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| Capitalizt |
There is no evidence pk because it hasn't been tried in a modern economy. Legalize freedom baby!
FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMM!!!!
;) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
hahaha, well played! :)
i just hope occrider has the time and inclination to join us here and stomp your nonsense into the dirt, just like the english did to the scots. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Yes yes..like I said, it would be messy..but not anarchy. It is not in the interest of merchants to demand currency that nobody has. They would be punished by the market and quickly go out of business.. The situation would be resolved one way or another. A private standard would either develop or it wouldn't. I personally think one or two strong currencies rise to the top. Give people the freedom to choose and let them face the consequences of their actions. Just legalize the right to choose. |
So why would you want to play Russian roulette with the economy, when people's livelihoods depend on it, just for some abstract ideological notion of a flawed economic logic? You already have the freedom to use a different currency. We have euros, yen, reals, pesos, canadian dollars, oh don't forget about british pounds. You can buy all the gold and silver you want.
How would you be able to police counterfeiting when you have a bunch of currencies domestically? The simple answer is, you can't. How would the secret service keep track of numerous currencies in the domestic market? It can't. How could price stability be maintained? It can't. How would the economy function when different merchants ask for different currencies. It can't.
Give the mob (market) a ferrari (really good economy) and open roads (laissez-faire policy) and he's going to total it (crash and burn). |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
So why would you want to play Russian roulette with the economy, when people's livelihoods depend on it, just for some abstract ideological notion of a flawed economic logic? You already have the freedom to use a different currency. We have euros, yen, reals, pesos, canadian dollars, oh don't forget about british pounds. You can buy all the gold and silver you want.
How would you be able to police counterfeiting when you have a bunch of currencies domestically? The simple answer is, you can't. How would the secret service keep track of numerous currencies in the domestic market? It can't. How could price stability be maintained? It can't.
Give the mob (market) a ferrari (really good economy) and open roads (laissez-faire policy) and he's going to total it (crash and burn). |
some stellar examples right there. |
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
You already have the freedom to use a different currency. We have euros, yen, reals, pesos, canadian dollars, oh don't forget about british pounds. |
Those currencies are also being devalued..but they are legal tender and it's mandated that they be accepted as payment. People should be given the right to refuse them and use alternatives.
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How would you be able to police counterfeiting when you have a bunch of currencies domestically? |
No need. Good money will drive out the bad. If a new car company sells cars that explode after a few days, they will be out of business in a matter of weeks without any government intervention. Consumers are the ultimate police officers.
| quote: | | How would the secret service keep track of numerous currencies in the domestic market? It can't. |
It wouldn't because it's not their business. This is a matter between buyers and sellers. | quote: |
How could price stability be maintained? It can't. |
It isn't being maintained today.:rolleyes: All world currencies buy less today than they did 10 years ago. The only difference is the degree of devaluation. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Those currencies are also being devalued. People should be given the right to refuse them and use alternatives. |
What alternative? Unregulated pseudo-currencies? That's ridiculous.
| quote: | | No need. Good money will drive out the bad. If a new car company sells cars that explode after a few days, they will be out of business in a matter of weeks without any government intervention. |
Great, an economy with multiple currencies, which become so inflated with counterfeits that one or the other is constantly collapsing in value. That makes for a great economy!
| quote: | | Consumers are the ultimate police officers. |
LOL, and drivers should police themselves too huh?
| quote: | | It wouldn't because it's not their business. This is a matter between buyers and sellers. |
So buyers and sellers are going to be the ones busting down the doors of the counterfeiters? LOL...
| quote: | | It isn't being maintained today.:rolleyes: |
Yes it is. The Federal Reserve has increased the money supply to stave off deflation. Notice how gas prices have stopped falling? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
All world currencies buy less today than they did 10 years ago. |
so? there's nothing inherently wrong with that. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
So we can reject one piece of devalued government paper in favor of another devalued piece of government paper? Yay! :) The problem is that government has many laws against private mints and legal tender laws prevent people from rejecting fiat bills. If people were free to reject debased government currency and instead demand sound money, sound money will gradually return to use in society. Competition would allow participants to choose a currency that suits their needs, rather than the needs of the government. I think the prospect of Americans turning away from the dollar towards alternate currencies would provide the necessary impetus to the US government to regain control of the dollar and halt its downward spiral. Right now they have no incentive to stop printing us into oblivion. |
how would google currency not be fiat money subject to the same risk of deflating value?
the incentive the US has to stop printing dollars is the world's unwillingness to lend to the US because of this risk. Once the world stops demanding to hold US denominated instruments and dollars, then the proper equilibrium will be reached. This is a far easier, and cleaner way to deal with the problem than to allow Disney dollars to circulate around without any citizen knowing whether they can trust the disney dollar.
Your system would also require a sort of "rating agency" to certify that each issuer of currency has sufficient protections as to prevent counterfeit currency. As we have seen in the past few years, these private undertakings are not better than the government at preventing fraud and abuse. |
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| Capitalizt |
Jer, if competition were legalized, it would be in the self-interest of anyone trying to break into this market to have an impeccable reputation for honesty and integrity. Private ratings agencies would almost certainly emerge to grade the financial soundness of various institutions and conduct regular audits, etc.
And Krypt, the federal reserve is already counterfeiting our official currency to a far greater extent than any private bank could manage.
I think competing currencies may fail because most people agree with you and think it's too radical of an idea. Most people would stick with what they know and be wary of an alternate currency. This being the case, what harm could come from legalization? People would stick with the dollar anyway right? They would stick with what they have faith in. You're a market man..Have a little faith in the marketplace for a change. If the free market can't provide a suitable alternative to the dollar, the dollar will remain supreme.
While we're at it, let's legalize alternatives to the post office for first class letters. I'd be interested to see if Fed Ex/UPS could offer stamps for less than .44. They might succeed and they might fail, but I'm for giving them the chance. Are you against this too? ;) |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Krypt, the federal reserve is already counterfeiting our official currency to a far greater extent than any private bank could manage.
I think competing currencies may fail because most people agree with you and think it's too radical of an idea. Most people would stick with what they know and be wary of an alternate currency. This being the case, what harm could come from legalization? People would stick with the dollar anyway right? They would stick with what they have faith in right? You're a market man..Have a little faith in the marketplace for a change. If the free market can't provide a suitable alternative to the dollar, the dollar will remain supreme.
While we're at it, let's legalize alternatives to the post office for first class letters. I'd be interested to see if Fed Ex/UPS could offer stamps for less than .44. They might succeed and they might fail, but I'm for giving them the chance. Are you against this too? ;) |
You don't think the USPS's distribution channels cause significant economies of scale leading to substantial cost efficiencies? When competition is introduced into this particular field, the cost efficiency of any one carrier to reach a specific location is diminished because they will have less volume. Mail carrier is a volume business, and diminishing that volume is not a good thing at all. |
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| jerZ07002 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Jer, if competition were legalized, it would be in the self-interest of anyone trying to break into this market to have an impeccable reputation for honesty and integrity. Private ratings agencies would almost certainly emerge to grade the financial soundness of various institutions and conduct regular audits, etc.
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exactly how does an issuer of private currency profit from this endeavor? |
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