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Mixing harmonically
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| ziptnf |
This has probably already been asked, but I'm too lazy to search. I'm too cheap to spend 60 bucks on Mixing In Key 4.0, so I am using the next best alternative.
Rapid Evolution:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
Here is their wiki for harmonic mixing:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
My question to you all is, after I load the songs into Rapid Evolution, it gives me the key, but in Traktor, controlling the Key of a track is done by percentages.
I read Mixing In Key actually writes the key to the ID3 tag and Traktor automatically mixes it harmonically for you. Is this the same case with this software, or do I have to do something different? Any ideas and comments are appreciated. |
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| woscar |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
This has probably already been asked, but I'm too lazy to search. I'm too cheap to spend 60 bucks on Mixing In Key 4.0, so I am using the next best alternative.
Rapid Evolution:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
Here is their wiki for harmonic mixing:
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]
My question to you all is, after I load the songs into Rapid Evolution, it gives me the key, but in Traktor, controlling the Key of a track is done by percentages. |
You mean pitch, not "key". Increments and decrements to the pitch will alter its key. However, Traktor has a function called "Key lock" which maintains the track in its original key even if you change the pitch.
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
I read Mixing In Key actually writes the key to the ID3 tag and Traktor automatically mixes it harmonically for you. Is this the same case with this software, or do I have to do something different? Any ideas and comments are appreciated. |
What do you mean by "Traktor automatically mixes it harmonically for you?" This is not how it works. MIK writes it to the tag of the mp3 file so you can refer to it easily on the Traktor navigation screen. It won't "mix it for you". |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar
You mean pitch, not "key". Increments and decrements to the pitch will alter its key. However, Traktor has a function called "Key lock" which maintains the track in its original key even if you change the pitch.
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You're right, I do mean pitch. The knob is called Key, which is why it threw me off. Key Lock sounds like an interesting function.
| quote: | | What do you mean by "Traktor automatically mixes it harmonically for you?" This is not how it works. MIK writes it to the tag of the mp3 file so you can refer to it easily on the Traktor navigation screen. It won't "mix it for you". |
That makes more sense. I didn't think it was possible for Traktor to automatically read the Key from the tag and set the pitch accordingly.
Okay, so say a track is read to have a key of Gm (G minor). How would I go about making sure the other tracks I am spinning follow that key? This will be my first time mixing harmonically so I want to do it right. Any tips? Am I still going to be changing the pitch using the key knob? |
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| woscar |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
You're right, I do mean pitch. The knob is called Key, which is why it threw me off. Key Lock sounds like an interesting function.
That makes more sense. I didn't think it was possible for Traktor to automatically read the Key from the tag and set the pitch accordingly.
Okay, so say a track is read to have a key of Gm (G minor). How would I go about making sure the other tracks I am spinning follow that key? This will be my first time mixing harmonically so I want to do it right. Any tips? Am I still going to be changing the pitch using the key knob? |
No, that's not how it works either...remember that by altering pitch, you are also altering BPMs.
See this paragraph from the link you posted:
| quote: | Pitch Shifts
When matching songs harmonically, you must be aware that changing the speed of a song also changes its key, unless a key controller is used. To be exact, a 5.94631% shift in speed will shift the key by a half-step. So if you're mixing a song in Cm at +6%, it's going to be in C#m/Ebm. Similarly, a change in RPM on your turntable from 33 to 45 will shift the key up 5 half-steps, from Cm to Fm.
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So, if you're using Traktor with the key lock on you don't have to worry about anything. No matter how much you alter the pitch, it will stay in its original key.
As for compatibility, also refer to the link you posted. Go down to the part with the colored circle. That is called the "Camelot System" and it assigns a number and a letter to each key. It's a lot harder to remember that Gm is compatible with Dm, Cm, and B-flatm than to remember that 6A is compatible with 5A, 7A, and 6B.
All of this is explained much better on the MIK site, than on the link you posted.
http://www.mixedinkey.com/HowTo.aspx |
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| Stu Cox |
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar
No, that's not how it works either...remember that by altering pitch, you are also altering BPMs.
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He's talking about using the Key knob, which changes the pitch independently of the tempo, so it WON'T change the speed in BPM.
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
My question to you all is, after I load the songs into Rapid Evolution, it gives me the key, but in Traktor, controlling the Key of a track is done by percentages.
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The key in Traktor's actually in semitones (turn it to 1.0 and you're shifting it up from say Cm to Dbm) - in the latest version at least.
But if you were using something which used percentages, as stated changing the speed by 5.94% (call it 6% to make life easier) is a semitone... the same applies if you're just changing the pitch - crank it up 6% to go up one semitone, 12% for 2 semitones and so on.
The problem is that the pitch shift function in Traktor isn't perfect, so if you shift it by more than 1 semitone is starts to sound pretty horrible and even at 1 semitone it can make a mix sound out of time even when it's in time because the algorithm makes the beats fall slightly irregularly.
So I'd say try giving it a go for a 1 semitone change, but don't expect to rely too heavily on it for harmonic mixing - instead, try and pick tracks in the right keys and use key lock to make sure they stay in the same key when they're beatmatched together. |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar
As for compatibility, also refer to the link you posted. Go down to the part with the colored circle. That is called the "Camelot System" and it assigns a number and a letter to each key. It's a lot harder to remember that Gm is compatible with Dm, Cm, and B-flatm than to remember that 6A is compatible with 5A, 7A, and 6B.
All of this is explained much better on the MIK site, than on the link you posted.
http://www.mixedinkey.com/HowTo.aspx |
This makes a ton of sense. A lot better explained. So basically, the trick is to pick songs that are in the same key, or close to the same key, and to use Key Lock to make sure they stay in that key.
So, let's look at the wheel for a second: Suppose I start off with a track in 8A (A minor), the way they recommend is to play another song after the first one that is in the same key, but after that, I am allowed to play a track in 9A, 9B, 8A, 8B, 7A, or 7B?
I am aware that it would probably be unwise to hop up and down the scale all over the place, such as if I played a track in 8A then went 7B, 6A, 7A, etc. I feel like that would be bad progression, even if the sound wasn't too far off. Right? |
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| keithos27 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
So, let's look at the wheel for a second: Suppose I start off with a track in 8A (A minor), the way they recommend is to play another song after the first one that is in the same key, but after that, I am allowed to play a track in 9A, 9B, 8A, 8B, 7A, or 7B?
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If you start in 8A, your next track could be 8A again, or 9A, or 7A, or 8B. Look at the wheel as it makes things much easier... Think of them as hours and you can move up or down an hour, or in/out the same hour. Make sense?
The system is not really a formula from my experience, however. Either the software didn't detect the key properly or something, but sometimes it just doesn't sound right all the time... Your ear is still the best judge. But that is how it is SUPPOSED to work. |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by keithos27
If you start in 8A, your next track could be 8A again, or 9A, or 7A, or 8B. Look at the wheel as it makes things much easier... Think of them as hours and you can move up or down an hour, or in/out the same hour. Make sense?
The system is not really a formula from my experience, however. Either the software didn't detect the key properly or something, but sometimes it just doesn't sound right all the time... Your ear is still the best judge. But that is how it is SUPPOSED to work. |
Yeah I absolutely understand what that's saying, but my question was more oriented toward: If you start at 8A can you move to 7B? Or can you only switch from minor to major in the same key? |
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| keithos27 |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Yeah I absolutely understand what that's saying, but my question was more oriented toward: If you start at 8A can you move to 7B? Or can you only switch from minor to major in the same key? |
My understanding is you cannot. Try it out and see if it sounds good? |
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| keithos27 |
| PS. You don't have to move for example from 7A to 8A to 9A, etc. You can always disable key lock, and vary the pitch to change the key as well, which enables you to jump around the wheel. Make sense? |
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| PutBoy |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
This has probably already been asked, but I'm too lazy to search. |
Not a good way to start a thread. If you're too lazy to take your time to search, why would anyone else take their time to answer your question? |
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| n3lly |
| quote: | Originally posted by PutBoy
Not a good way to start a thread. If you're too lazy to take your time to search, why would anyone else take their time to answer your question? |
He seems to have gotten plenty of answers..
End of the day if people weren't too lazy then we'd have nothing to talk about as i'm pretty sure most topics have been covered :)
I know where you're coming from though..
nelly |
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