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32bit vs. 16bit (pg. 2)
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
2) If you plan to do much processing on the audio stream itself (i.e. before any effects, filters, etc. are added to the track). Every offline process on a fixed-point digital signal is going to degrade the signal slightly. If you do 10 or 20 of them in a row - and some of us really do this much processing - you'll actually be able to hear the artifacts at some point.
Majority of producers probably never do either of these things, so leaving the default recording settings at 24 bits is good enough. |
Really? So if you do offline processing, then you should record at 32 bits? But if your only doing real time work using VSTs, then you don't have to worry?
Interesting...Sort of makes sense when you think about it. |
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| echosystm |
gigaflops...
seriously |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Really? So if you do offline processing, then you should record at 32 bits? But if your only doing real time work using VSTs, then you don't have to worry? |
VSTi tracks are already 32f. And as x64 moves further into the mainstream, the standard may eventually be updated to 64f.
What I've been saying is that the only time you actually have any control over the bit depth is (a) when working with discrete PCM-encoded files i.e. wav, and (b) when working with standalone audio hardware and/or ADCs/DACs, which for the most part are unable to support floating-point signals. When using software plugins - instruments, effects, mastering tools, whatever - you're bound to whatever the environment uses, which right now is 32 bits.
Even dithering plugins designed to convert down to 24 or 16 bits actually put out a 32-bit word. It just always has the last 8 or 16 bits truncated to zero.
What you've said isn't wrong per se, but a more accurate paraphrasing of my original post would be: Do any bouncing/recording at the same bit depth as your source, which is 24 bits for discrete hardware and 32 bits for VST or AU. But if you recorded at 24 bits, and you plan to use offline processing more than once or twice, convert it to 32 bits first in order to reduce the progressive degradation. |
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| Raphie |
set project to 32f
record in 32bits
stay on 44.1 (no use for 48/88/96 or 192 when end product is 44.1)
mixdown in 32bits, mast 32 > 16bits
24bits is LEGACY and if you mastering studio is not prepared to work with your 32bits mixdown find another one who will.. you only want to truncane bits once, not twice... |
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| Raphie |
set project to 32f
record in 32bits
stay on 44.1 (no use for 48/88/96 or 192 when end product is 44.1)
mixdown in 32bits, mast 32 > 16bits
24bits is LEGACY and if you mastering studio is not prepared to work with your 32bits mixdown find another one who will.. you only want to truncane bits once, not twice... |
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| cronodevir |
Why default to MP3 specs? I make my final product a high quality wav if I can. Highest Settings. Or I do .ogg [but my net host doesn't support .ogg so I use mp3 :(]
Many mp3 players support wav and its cheap to get a couple GB mp3 player. |
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| wrzonance |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
Why default to MP3 specs? |
It's all about the lowest common denominator: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest_common_denominator
And if most people listen to music in MP3 or CD formats. Then that is what you taylor your final master to.
It doesn't mean you can't have a nice WAV file for people to download... or make a flac version of your final master... but if you want to appeal to a wider audience:
16bit, 44.1kHz and 192kbps (if it's an MP3)
:) |
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| cronodevir |
| 192kbps are you ting me? 320kbit is the lowest I will go with an MP3 |
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| wrzonance |
| quote: | Originally posted by cronodevir
192kbps are you ting me? 320kbit is the lowest I will go with an MP3 |
320 is great, but 192 suffices for most people, again read lowest common denominator.
This is a nerd crowd. For my own mixes and masters the lowest I go for MP3 is 320kbps as well.
:) |
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| DigiNut |
Blah, not this stupid MP3 bitrate argument again. Please, save that for another thread, or better yet dig up one of the 368 old 320 vs. 256 vs. 192 kbit MP3 threads on here or on just about any other internet forum.
Encode at whatever bitrate you feel comfortable with. Just keep in mind that it's a major pain in the ass for people to download files that are twice as big (or 10 times as big if you're fanatical enough to direct them to a wav file). |
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| wrzonance |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Blah, not this stupid MP3 bitrate argument again. |
/me points at cronodevir
He started it!
:) I should have just let sleeping dogs lie.... |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
VSTi tracks are already 32f. And as x64 moves further into the mainstream, the standard may eventually be updated to 64f.
What I've been saying is that the only time you actually have any control over the bit depth is (a) when working with discrete PCM-encoded files i.e. wav, and (b) when working with standalone audio hardware and/or ADCs/DACs, which for the most part are unable to support floating-point signals. When using software plugins - instruments, effects, mastering tools, whatever - you're bound to whatever the environment uses, which right now is 32 bits.
Even dithering plugins designed to convert down to 24 or 16 bits actually put out a 32-bit word. It just always has the last 8 or 16 bits truncated to zero.
What you've said isn't wrong per se, but a more accurate paraphrasing of my original post would be: Do any bouncing/recording at the same bit depth as your source, which is 24 bits for discrete hardware and 32 bits for VST or AU. But if you recorded at 24 bits, and you plan to use offline processing more than once or twice, convert it to 32 bits first in order to reduce the progressive degradation. |
Absolutely, but to clarify this further, even if your system runs at 32 bit, you will not be able to use really any benefit off that as your system is only as good as the weakest link in the chain.
In nearly everyone's case this is the soundcard, which as diginut rightly points out is 24bit.
So basically, to maintain the highest quality while producing your host needs to be at 24bit and so does your all your equipment. Any higher than that is quite pointless as you can't take advantage of it at any stage of the production process. Therfore going lower than that is not maximising your available quality.
I go by the rule that you should produce your master at the highest quality format you can and then bounce down to your target format. We are talking about you masters here - not what someone will eventually buy off beatport.
For me thats 24bit/96k. Why 96k? Because you can hear things at 96k that you can't at lower sample rates, especially when recording any live instruments such as classical string instruments.
Sorry, didn't mean to open that can of worms too... :toothless
And by the way I NEVER download anything other than wav for DJ'ing or my personal collection. Yes maybe dj sets or promos, but with broadband connections as fast as they are, it take less than 20 mins for me to download a dozen wavs from beatport. |
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