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Ayn Rand (pg. 7)
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| woscar |
Kevin has always come across to me as one of those Creationists that have Answers in Genesis as their home page and then just copy paste their tripe on science forums and websites.
:p |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by woscar
Kevin has always come across to me as one of those Creationists that have Answers in Genesis as their home page and then just copy paste their tripe on science forums and websites.
:p |
Copy words from one location. Paste them to another and they appear. There's no explanation for it. It just happens. You can't explain that. |
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| Meat187 |
| How exactly did this thread come to American politics? :mad: |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Meat187
How exactly did this thread come to American politics? :mad: |
Ayn Rand has played a pivotal role in the current financial crisis. Much of her thinking has been adopted by libertarian and conservative politicians, as well.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/ |
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| infiniteJEST |
| Because we're speaking American, and in America there are rules. |
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| stevebutabi |
| Whatever you believe about her writing, it is thought-provoking - and IMO that's all you can ask from an ethos. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevebutabi
Whatever you believe about her writing, it is thought-provoking - and IMO that's all you can ask from an ethos. |
It's thought-retarding and pathological.
I think I'll hold out for better before I accept cartoonish character development and a plot-line shy on real-world applicability before I gun the car over to Galt's Gulch. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
let's not forget how different the Democrats were back then too:
John F. Kennedy, December 14th, 1962:
;)
Sounds like today's Conservatives, eh? |
I'm all in favor of tax cuts when the federal budget is running surpluses. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
rrrrrrright. tax cuts are to blame. |
Spending has increased, but it's disingenuous to pretend that revenue and deficits aren't also linked. This was an interesting (conservative) take on how revenue is indeed worsening the economic crisis. Not through lowering tax rates, persay, but by decreasing the labor pool that actually pays taxes:
| quote: | This increase in unemployment has also hit tax receipts. Government revenue fell from a high of 2.7 trillion (in 2010 dollars) in 2007 to 2.1 trillion in 2010. If tax receipts reached 2007’s levels, we would cut $600 billion from the deficit. A drop in the need for unemployment assistance could easily cut federal spending by at least $150 billion. That’s already about half of last year’s deficit taken care of without making a single cut to any program. (And those figures do not take into account other areas where unemployment has increased federal spending.)
The fastest, politically easiest way to reduce the deficit would be to restore the health of the labor market (which might be the same thing as saying that the fastest, easiest way to reduce the deficit would be to rub a lamp until a genie come out). This is not to say that there is not a cloud in the fiscal future of Medicare or Social Security, or that there is not waste in federal expenditures, or that making certain budget cuts would be a bad idea, or that taxes should not go up (it’s worth noting that we have had nowhere near a balanced budget since the Bush tax cuts passed). This is not even to say that there are no hard choices that face us in dealing with mounting debts. But the focus should be less on trying to shave off a billion here or there and more on getting the nation’s economic house in order so that it can get its fiscal house in order.
http://www.frumforum.com/want-to-cut-the-deficit-jump-start-job-growth |
I think some conservatives will take that as an argument for ending unemployment benefits (or "reforming" them), but the takeaway for me is trying to find ways to bolster the labor market without inducing further shocks to revenue through simultaneously decreasing what those that still pay taxes are paying into funding the budget. I have both an immediate family member and a roommate on unemployment currently, so I know how rough it is out there right now. I think both Medicare/Medicaid and Social Security reform will be on the table sooner rather than later (Obama's team has hinted as much, at least), but I'd hate to see them start playing with unemployment until they get the labor force stabilized. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Ayn Rand has played a pivotal role in the current financial crisis. Much of her thinking has been adopted by libertarian and conservative politicians, as well.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/ |
that was a good doco. |
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| stevebutabi |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
It's thought-retarding and pathological.
I think I'll hold out for better before I accept cartoonish character development and a plot-line shy on real-world applicability before I gun the car over to Galt's Gulch. |
I agree that her character development is cartoonish (although her prose is lovely) and that objectivism can be pathological and thought-retarding if applied wholeheartedly.
But, like with any philosophy, it's not always about the ethos itself but rather what you choose to take from it.
Sure, if you take objectivism as religion, all over a sudden your ideas, beliefs and interests are all that matter and there's no point to think beyond them, which some would say is a dead end.
Or, you can choose to take a softer view: that your own ideas, beliefs and interests are valuable, and that they should not be subjugated to those of others without vigorous consideration. IMO this is a very powerful, thought-provoking concept. It brings into review everything about yourself and your actions, which is healthy.
But even that interpretation can be used for no good, and if followed the wrong way by everyone, would make the world "nasty brutish and short". I think that when working within the confines of a social contract that adheres to things like property laws, basic human rights, etc. and also combined with good parenting that generates a moral conscience, a softer interpretation of objectivism can be quite valuable.
Thoughts? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevebutabi
Thoughts? |
i'd like to know what, if anything, rand contributed to the essentially libertarian philosophy. a philosophy that pre-dated the evil soviet penis in her arse by more than a few years. |
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