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Communism is upon us? Maybe I am going to need a lawyer soon?? (pg. 3)
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
i admire your debating skills LOL |
and yours are seriously lacking. AGAIN, your main point has merit, but the way you go about presenting and defending it only undermines your efforts.
considering 'the state' just tolerated thousands upon thousands of Tamil demonstrators occupying a major highway, marching on public roads, continuing to protest outside gov't buildings, etc. is proof that we're not remotely close to a communist state.
it is indeed debateable whether or not policians should enjoy the same freedom from libel/slander/whatever that individual citizens do.
you don't need to sensationalize your point with ridiculous slippery slope fear-mongering and should stick to debate the topic at hand. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
and yours are seriously lacking. AGAIN, your main point has merit, but the way you go about presenting and defending it only undermines your efforts.
considering 'the state' just tolerated thousands upon thousands of Tamil demonstrators occupying a major highway, marching on public roads, continuing to protest outside gov't buildings, etc. is proof that we're not remotely close to a communist state.
it is indeed debateable whether or not policians should enjoy the same freedom from libel/slander/whatever that individual citizens do.
you don't need to sensationalize your point with ridiculous slippery slope fear-mongering and should stick to debate the topic at hand. |
Ahhh but thats a cause they agree with. China and Cuba allow protests too. As long as they are sympathetic to government causes. I can tell you that many protests if staged on the gardiner would probably have been dealt with differently.
I am not saying we *are* communist. But what I am saying is that every day we are inching ever so closer to it. Please dont confuse what I am saying. As I said before, I hope people realize and care about it NOW before it is too late.
Perhaps i should have used "is approaching" instead of "upon us"? But thats just semantics i guess. Most people can figure out what I am trying to say. |
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| miketg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Ahhh but thats a cause they agree with. China and Cuba allow protests too. As long as they are sympathetic to government causes. I can tell you that many protests if staged on the gardiner would probably have been dealt with differently.
I am not saying we *are* communist. But what I am saying is that every day we are inching ever so closer to it. Please dont confuse what I am saying. As I said before, I hope people realize and care about it NOW before it is too late.
Perhaps i should have used "is approaching" instead of "upon us"? But thats just semantics i guess. Most people can figure out what I am trying to say. |
I disagree with this new proposal for our councillors, but this law is no leading us to communism. One could easily argue that the patriot act in the united states grants even greater powers to a government in order to oppress those that disagree with them. Does this mean the U.S falling into a communist trap? I don't think so.
And, as I recall, the right to protest and/or speak out against the government were not know trademarks of ultra right wing, fascist germany or italy... You should really look up the the definitions of communism and dictatorship and see which one you actually mean. |
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| Kellyboop |
| quote: | Originally posted by miketg23
One could easily argue that the patriot act in the united states grants even greater powers to a government in order to oppress those that disagree with them. Does this mean the U.S falling into a communist trap? I don't think so.
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If you researched counter-terrorism measures such as the Patriot Act then you would reconsider the answer to that question. |
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| miketg23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kellyboop
If you researched counter-terrorism measures such as the Patriot Act then you would reconsider the answer to that question. |
The U.S supreme court did that for me and that is why it was amended in 2005. Almost 4 years after it came into law. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Ahhh but thats a cause they agree with. China and Cuba allow protests too. As long as they are sympathetic to government causes. I can tell you that many protests if staged on the gardiner would probably have been dealt with differently.
I am not saying we *are* communist. But what I am saying is that every day we are inching ever so closer to it. Please dont confuse what I am saying. As I said before, I hope people realize and care about it NOW before it is too late.
Perhaps i should have used "is approaching" instead of "upon us"? But thats just semantics i guess. Most people can figure out what I am trying to say. |
wtf? a cause *who* agrees with? the gov't? really? I didn't realize that one side waiving the flag of an org that the gov't labelled a terrorist org was symbolic of a shared cause, lol.
contrast that with China who was arresting/detaining anyone in sight this past week on the 10th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre and I don't think it's safe to make ANY analogy with other communist nations in terms of personal freedoms.
and it's not just semantics...it's wild exaggeration. |
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| 7-4-7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Ahhh but thats a cause they agree with. China and Cuba allow protests too. As long as they are sympathetic to government causes. I can tell you that many protests if staged on the gardiner would probably have been dealt with differently.
I am not saying we *are* communist. But what I am saying is that every day we are inching ever so closer to it. Please dont confuse what I am saying. As I said before, I hope people realize and care about it NOW before it is too late.
Perhaps i should have used "is approaching" instead of "upon us"? But thats just semantics i guess. Most people can figure out what I am trying to say. |
These protests were neither favourable to the cause or the facade of the government; for most it was a nuisance. In a communist regime this would not have received approval in the minitries of communist governments. Those long standing protests simply would not have existed.
You are often & blatantly saying that we are ever moving closer to a communist regime. A socialist and communist state we are far from....far from. Historically speaking we are extremely far from it. We are not 2 nor 25 left of centre decisions aware from communism.
You are not a whistle blower.
Your political direction is so obvious and your political ideologies are so far right that it blinds the sense you make occasionally.
And its not too late, it never will be. We live in a democracy, and although I personally may be more left of centre; at the end of the day a BAD administration is never the right option. I believe that soon enough the people will end this bad era of municipal leadership.
It seems almost petty to lay claim that ones debating technique is lacking when I always know that what you are going to say is so incredible skewed. My fear is that one naive individual may just think you are telling the truth rather than ever being objective. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by 7-4-7
My fear is that one naive individual may just think you are telling the truth rather than ever being objective. |
Please. Jay may exaggerate and get his terminology mixed up, but it's no worse than the rhetoric we hear daily from the Left in general and the Miller/McGuinty apologists in particular. He's also very clearly socially liberal and only fiscally conservative, which is not at all "far right".
To those who are already far left of the centre line, anybody even a few feet to the right looks like a hysterical neocon wingnut, an image further reinforced by the dearth of ideological diversity in Ontario and especially in Toronto.
This isn't Jay's best writing by any means, but I think you're colouring the truth just as much as he is with a comment like this. |
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| MarkT |
gosh, do we even have any Miller and McGuinty apologists anymore? :D
with Jay, it's annoying because he *constantly* does this. everything is a ing march to communism, fascism, Canada turning into a third world country or "banana republic" (haven't heard that one in a while though, lol), etc.
we don't need this ridiculous exaggeration. if the argument is strong enough, it can stand on it's own merits.
most people here probably do have a problem with unreasonable search and seizure (from the other thread)...but how many actually tune him out because of his ludicrous analogies and slippery slope claims? wtf does this case have to do with communism???
it's perfectly fine to debate the alleged erosion of personal freedoms without claiming that we're inching closer to whatever political system he feels like mentioning that day. |
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| Jayx1 |
There are a lot of people in Venezuela who still think they live in a democracy. Of course they are further along the path of communism/fascism or where ever Chavez decides to take them, but the point is they are duped. I see the same thing happening to us in a less extreme way. My point is that the seeds are being planted now and if we continue in this direction we will end up like many of the countries that immigrants come here to escape.
Sound extreme? Maybe. But Canadian society isnt becoming freer day by day thats for sure. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Amongst many many other things. Just dont speak your mind about chinese politics and you tend to be ok.
Communism = the state controlling and distributing resources and having control over every facet of society and how they behave. This is usually accompanied by hardline rules on freedom of speech and critique of the rulers in order to oppress opposition to the ruling party's agenda.
Sounds kinda like what they are attempting at city hall doesnt it? |
So politicians can sue for libel. There's a whole judicial process that follows. Big difference between here and China don't you think? |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
So politicians can sue for libel. There's a whole judicial process that follows. Big difference between here and China don't you think? |
Obviously but to use public money to silence your critics and political opponants is a first step in getting there wouldnt you agree? |
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