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Where does clipping actually occur (pg. 2)
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
not necessarily, you could be clipping that channel, then route it to a group channel and turn that down so its not clipping the master but is clipping on that track. or you could also have a track clipping without the master clipping by turning down the masterfader. |
I don't think that an individual channel in the red will result in audible clipping unless the master is clipping. At least it hasn't seemed to in my experience. I could be wrong, though... |
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| mysticalninja |
| You may be right, like I said I think I heard Diginut saying that same thing, except he actually understood the why and how. |
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| a98 |
i believe it has something do with the algorithm, so that when you turn master volume down, it actually turns down each individual channel too, even though the sliders and leds don't change. this ofcourse only with DAWs/software.
still i think it's always a good idea to avoid this, and other techniques where you're not 100% sure of the result. even if it's just a small inaudible difference, doing a lots of these might have a bigger impact on the end result. |
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| Acton |
| quote: | Originally posted by ********
2. Psychological - sound gets distorted unintentionally.
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How is that psychological? |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by mysticalninja
You may be right, like I said I think I heard Diginut saying that same thing, except he actually understood the why and how. |
It's because 0 dB is not full scale in the 32-bit floating-point domain that sequencers use. Or at least not all sequencers.
It's still possible to get clipping on an individual channel, but it's not necessarily going to be at 0 dB, it might be at 6 dB or 10 dB or 100 dB. The actual number depends on the individual sequencer's implementation. Unless the number is explicitly documented, you probably want to stay below 0 dB anyway just to be safe.
Technically, this is also true for the master - a red signal is not actually "clipping" inside the sequencer - but clipping will result as soon as it leaves the sequencer because it has to be converted to a fixed-point PCM signal.
So to answer the original question: Yes, you really are getting clipping, and if you want proof, try making it clip really hard to so you can actually hear the distortion, then turn the volume way down on your sound card. If you don't hear the same distortion, I will eat my hat. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
It's because 0 dB is not full scale in the 32-bit floating-point domain that sequencers use. Or at least not all sequencers.
It's still possible to get clipping on an individual channel, but it's not necessarily going to be at 0 dB, it might be at 6 dB or 10 dB or 100 dB. The actual number depends on the individual sequencer's implementation. Unless the number is explicitly documented, you probably want to stay below 0 dB anyway just to be safe.
Technically, this is also true for the master - a red signal is not actually "clipping" inside the sequencer - but clipping will result as soon as it leaves the sequencer because it has to be converted to a fixed-point PCM signal.
So to answer the original question: Yes, you really are getting clipping, and if you want proof, try making it clip really hard to so you can actually hear the distortion, then turn the volume way down on your sound card. If you don't hear the same distortion, I will eat my hat. |
Thankyou! This is sort of what I thought... So you can get clipping either at the DAW master channel or at the soundcard's output? And on individual channels as well? Depending on where the sequencer decides is full scale? |
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| Lucidity |
| So why not just put limiters on any or all channels that you think are clipping? |
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| mysticalninja |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Thankyou! This is sort of what I thought... So you can get clipping either at the DAW master channel or at the soundcard's output? And on individual channels as well? Depending on where the sequencer decides is full scale? |
try his suggestion to find out. really smart idea. yet so obvious too.
| quote: | | So to answer the original question: Yes, you really are getting clipping, and if you want proof, try making it clip really hard to so you can actually hear the distortion, then turn the volume way down on your sound card. If you don't hear the same distortion, I will eat my hat. |
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| dannib |
| I hope thats intended as a joke lol |
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| dannib |
| quote: | | So why not just put limiters on any or all channels that you think are clipping? |
i hope thats intended as a joke lol
In cubase i can run a sine wave on an audio track, turn the volume up to max and get a heavily clipped square wave. If i turn the master fader down by the same amount the clipping dissapears and i can null out the sound. |
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| Lucidity |
| quote: | Originally posted by dannib
i hope thats intended as a joke lol
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Well, sorry, I should have elaborated a bit more, I was referring to OP, I know it doesn't answer his question, but, I thought, for him to get the levels right, for going into his mixer or whatever, so he could get the levels he wanted, without audible clipping.(for sure, without guessing is it audible),, Whatever, if I sound like a retard just nevermind this post. (i'm sleepy) |
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