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let us exspose the methods of making tracks (pg. 2)
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| djandymac |
| usually to start with i setup 3 midi tracks for a bass, a pad, and a piano. then ill work on bass and chord progressions along with melodies. this is the first step i take, then i build the track around my main chord progression and melody. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric Shaw
My parents and grandparents have been on me to learn about musical theory and notes but in my mind I want no borders. I don't want to know HOW to make music, that would be a limitation in itself. Music is undefinable and therefore you can have no rules when creating it. |
Maybe if you bothered to spend some time learning it, you would realize that music theory is more descriptive than prescriptive - much unlike the kind of formulaic tutorials and advice that the majority of newbie producers on this forum continually ask for.
I've got nothing against being self-taught if you're just doing something for fun, but it's like saying that you shouldn't need to apprentice to become an electrician or play under a coach in the bush leagues to become a professional athlete. Yeah, you do, it's just that once you reach a certain level of skill and experience you start to understand WHY you got that advice or those guidelines and know when it's appropriate to make different decisions based on your personal style. |
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| Eric Shaw |
| quote: | Originally posted by floyd741
That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read/heard. After reading this I can only assume that you can have no appreciation of music as you fail to see the benefit of understanding it's most basic concepts. How the hell is knowing music theory a limitation? If anything it gives you the knowledge to go beyond those who don't know music theory. In fact, I wish I had paid more attention in my classes... I would know a lot more than I currently do. Also music itself is 100% definable. It is the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity.
So yea you should take some music theory classes. It definitely helps to know basic concepts when creating any sort of music. |
Seems I ruffled some feathers here. First of all, the mere fact that you read so much into my post that you were angered by my opinions (!), not facts, is a bit extreme to be honest.
Second, you seem to take the advantage of musical theory over self-learning for granted. Sure it's a good method but what's to say that you can't learn sufficiently on your own? I've been making music my entire life and I've tried and experimented and evaluated any results that I've come across and through that I've learned, just without any assistance.
I also have got to say that I disagree with music being 100% definable. I believe music is a relation between a state of mind and emotions that are carried out and conveyed through a physical medium (music as soundwaves). The physical medium itself may include a science and be considered as definable. But that is not the essence of music in its entirety. The rest is as definable and explored as the human brain if you will pardon my sarcasm.
Lastly, I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post and I see it harsh indeed the way you responded. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric Shaw
Seems I ruffled some feathers here. First of all, the mere fact that you read so much into my post that you were angered by my opinions (!), not facts, is a bit extreme to be honest.
Second, you seem to take the advantage of musical theory over self-learning for granted. Sure it's a good method but what's to say that you can't learn sufficiently on your own? I've been making music my entire life and I've tried and experimented and evaluated any results that I've come across and through that I've learned, just without any assistance.
I also have got to say that I disagree with music being 100% definable. I believe music is a relation between a state of mind and emotions that are carried out and conveyed through a physical medium (music as soundwaves). The physical medium itself may include a science and be considered as definable. But that is not the essence of music in its entirety. The rest is as definable and explored as the human brain if you will pardon my sarcasm.
Lastly, I didn't mean to offend anyone with my post and I see it harsh indeed the way you responded. |
You didn't offend me.
This kind of attitude toward music theory is somewhat common; I don't know what prompts people to stiff their lip. |
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| owien |
i dont think he did just said what he felt at the time amd almost deraild my thred.
not a problen thoe i'm sure things will be back on track |
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| Stephen Wiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric Shaw
I also have got to say that I disagree with music being 100% definable. I believe music is a relation between a state of mind and emotions that are carried out and conveyed through a physical medium (music as soundwaves). The physical medium itself may include a science and be considered as definable. |
Not on either side of the fence here, but this doesn't make any sense?
1. You say music is not definable. (There is not a middle ground with regards to definitions. Something is either defined or it isn't, it's that simple. Grab a Webster's if you don't believe me.)
2. Then you refer to music as a physical medium through which emotions, state of mind, etc. manifest (your opinion)
3. Then you say the physical medium may (the operative word in this sentence) include a science and be considered definable.
Again, I am not on either side of the fence here. I believe people should do what they think is best, although I would caution you (and anybody else) to not dismiss the strong opinions of experts, and yes, Diginut is an expert.
:) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric Shaw
Second, you seem to take the advantage of musical theory over self-learning for granted. Sure it's a good method but what's to say that you can't learn sufficiently on your own? I've been making music my entire life and I've tried and experimented and evaluated any results that I've come across and through that I've learned, just without any assistance. |
You also have no frame of reference. You are asking questions you think are rhetorical that other people actually could answer from experience.
| quote: | | I believe music is a relation between a state of mind and emotions that are carried out and conveyed through a physical medium (music as soundwaves). The physical medium itself may include a science and be considered as definable. But that is not the essence of music in its entirety. The rest is as definable and explored as the human brain if you will pardon my sarcasm. |
I'm sure that I would find that really deep and insightful if I were stoned off my ass, but at the moment that reads like a bunch of nonsense stuffed with ambiguous buzz words.
Actually, to tell you the truth, it reads like someone who's never had any education or training, doesn't really understand the subject matter too well, and is trying to sound like he knows what he's talking about, masking incoherence with poor communication. We've all heard this a million times before.
Honestly, a "physical medium" that "includes a science?" WTF? |
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| Lucidity |
| This is fun to watch, continue please:wtf: :haha: |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Maybe if you bothered to spend some time learning it, you would realize that music theory is more descriptive than prescriptive - much unlike the kind of formulaic tutorials and advice that the majority of newbie producers on this forum continually ask for.
I've got nothing against being self-taught if you're just doing something for fun, but it's like saying that you shouldn't need to apprentice to become an electrician or play under a coach in the bush leagues to become a professional athlete. Yeah, you do, it's just that once you reach a certain level of skill and experience you start to understand WHY you got that advice or those guidelines and know when it's appropriate to make different decisions based on your personal style. |
See, its all very well to say that theory is more descriptive than prescriptive, however, I think you'll find that it lacks systems to adequately describe something like a noise sweep, or even melodic content like that found in a Reaktor synth like Subharmonic. What happens when mathematics becomes the more accurate descriptive system?
Further, if your only descriptive system lacks terminology to adequately describe a musical concept, doesn't it seem likely that that concept dies out? If you read 1984 I think it raises the question of "if we lack a word to describe a concept, can we actually discuss the concept? In which case, can we concieve of it?"
The simple reality is that while music theory can be a helpful perspective, it is far from the only perspective and certainly not essential. |
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| Stephen Wiley |
One thing we need to keep in mind here is the context in which we're talking about "music theory" - Reading through the thread, it would lead you to believe that we're discussing an all or nothing thing.
While the original poster may want absolutely nothing to do with music theory, I think any sensible person on here will agree that at least some music theory needs to be known in order to create good music. Music theory is not just defined to chords and scales. Understanding how a track breaks on the 16th and 32nd beat is music theory! Even DJ's (some, sadly not enough) understand that concept and apply it.
In my opinion there is a middle ground as far as learning music theory and it is different for different people, however as the old saying goes, don't knock it till you try it. You have no leg to stand on if you say music theory (or anything really) is worthless, a waste of time, etc, when you know nothing about it. Goes back to one of my favorite sayings. Don't hold strong opinions about things which you do not understand. |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric Shaw
you seem to take the advantage of musical theory over self-learning for granted.
I believe music is a relation between a state of mind and emotions that are carried out and conveyed through a physical medium (music as soundwaves). |
Some odd comments in here - how do you juxtapose musical theory and self learning? Musical theory can be learned from a teacher or self-taught.
And yes, music is a language of emotions, and musical theory will help you to express these emotions more clearly. You may as well be saying "I'm going to write incredibly moving poetry, but learn nothing about how to put words/ phrases together effectively". Or "I'm going to play excellent basketball, but not learn the best shooting mechanic so I can make a high percentage of my shots".
Good luck with your music! |
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| floyd741 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric Shaw
Seems I ruffled some feathers here. First of all, the mere fact that you read so much into my post that you were angered by my opinions (!), not facts, is a bit extreme to be honest.
Second, you seem to take the advantage of musical theory over self-learning for granted. Sure it's a good method but what's to say that you can't learn sufficiently on your own? I've been making music my entire life and I've tried and experimented and evaluated any results that I've come across and through that I've learned, just without any assistance.
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Sorry, I am completely aware that my post was unnecessarily harsh. That's what the tags are there for, it's a bit of a warning before you read.
Also, I can understand that some people prefer to teach themselves music. It's a perfectly valid method of learning and I wouldn't respect a self-taught musician any less than a musician who learned from someone else. I was only saying that you should learn music theory (whether you teach your self or taught by another). But still, I tend to avoid teaching myself anything that requires skill. I've had some bad experiences with teaching myself, especially music. I taught myself to play guitar, mostly finger picking. I was really into classical guitar music. Unfortunately, when I took a class with a classical guitarist I had developed some bad habits that were very hard to drop (I still haven't dropped all of them anyway). These bad habits were what stopped me from really playing to my full potential (like a roadblock), it was an unfortunate situation indeed. Of course, not everyone is the same. Some people are self-taught pros.
In conclusion, LEARN MUSIC THEORY. |
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