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Monitors or Soundcard first?
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| DJ Robby Rox |
I've made a promise to stop learning mixing/mastering techniques because something is seriously not right about my current set up. I've posted this before about how we have the whole "loudness war" and it feels like I'm not even in that war, it literally seems like I'm in the "quiet war" with my productions.
I spread my leads when I need to, I layer things when they sound thin, I pan similar frequencies in opposite directions, keep my bass and kicks centered, roll off my frequencies where neccassary, bring out mids where they may be lacking, compress, limit, I KNOW I'm not doing anything damn near close to perfect, but I also know for what I DO know about producing, there is no reasons my mixes should all be sounding as low and as weak as they do.
This has been an issue for so long I'm even thinking about exploring new DAWS now.
Its so easy for me now to make a ripping melody, a deep driving bass, hats and percussion that groove, but at some point after mixing (not before, you all use to convince me it was my fault and I've convinced myself your all wrong lol)
Can someone please help me?
I've never used anything but my factory sound card that came with a clone I built myself.
I've never used anything but computer speakers with a single 6" sub, I *thought I knew how to compensate for the translation to a regular system, I guess I was wrong.
I'm just SICK SICK SICK of having a track that sounds great, but its always like I render it and what I HEARD before it was rendered sounds NOTHING like what I'm hearing after I render it and play it on other systems.
Is it really that hard to get levels balanced w/out proper monitoring?
There is nothing else I can think of that I'm doing wrong other then these 3 things
a) Fruity
b) soundcard
c) monitors
Or am I fvcking crazy? I can't be. These mfkrs on beatport have some clue at how to make their music sound loud and full. I'm not talking about the idiots that abuse sidechaining and compress the fvck out of their tracks.
I hear a lot of very clear, very full, and very loud pristine tracks on beatport where the only downfall in production is the the melody sucks, or its not mixed right, elements arent introduced right BUT they have the sound quality bit handled.
I know how to introduce elements, build anticipation, I know how to make an inspiring melody. I know how to keep my sounds clean.
I DO NOT KNOW what the hell I'm missing.
Should I start by getting a soundcard first or the monitors? Whats more important iyo?
Does a soundcard affect the rendering quality of a mix?
Like will a better soundcard result in a higher quality mix from computer to cd? If not then I see no point in even having one. I know monitors help by not coloring the sound, but I am pissed.
I literally feel like Fruity is rendering under the same audio engine some bull like ejay uses. I know Im rambling here I just need guidance.
Everytime I come here people say compare your tracks to pros, yeh well I DO THAT and even when I'm mixing similar styles of music, and following pro tracks as a template (with multi spectrum analyzers) my tracks still sound the same.
This can NOT be my fault. Its has to be something else I'm overlooking. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| Post a sample of one of your tracks and a sample of a track that you think is well-mastered, so we can compare. |
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| Luke Terry |
Monitors. Soundcard isn't really an issue, although running ASIO will help performance.
FL is not your problem, that's for sure.
A sample would certainly help |
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| Subtle |
I think you just need to make more music, develop your ears more and get more experience. I think you would be surprised to how much work and effort needs to be put down in order to make good sounding tracks. We are talking years here (as much as 5-10 and more) and dusins of hours a week here, of quality production time.
Its a bad idea to compare your music with other music too much, it will only leave you hanging, send it to friends and ask them instead, they will tell if something is not right.
I would not worry too much about the monitors and soundcard, if you know your monitors really well you already know the relative levels needed for a proper mixdown, BUT.. be sure to check your tracks on your iPod in case monitors are missing something.
Post us some samples. |
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| Luke Terry |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subtle
I think you just need to make more music, develop your ears more and get more experience. I think you would be surprised to how much work and effort needs to be put down in order to make good sounding tracks. We are talking years here (as much as 5-10 and more) and dusins of hours a week here, of quality production time.
Its a bad idea to compare your music with other music too much, it will only leave you hanging, send it to friends and ask them instead, they will tell if something is not right.
I would not worry too much about the monitors and soundcard, if you know your monitors really well you already know the relative levels needed for a proper mixdown, BUT.. be sure to check your tracks on your iPod in case monitors are missing something.
Post us some samples. |
Excellent post  |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
there is no reasons my mixes should all be sounding as low and as weak as they do.
I've never used anything but computer speakers with a single 6" sub, I *thought I knew how to compensate for the translation to a regular system, I guess I was wrong.
There is nothing else I can think of that I'm doing wrong other then these 3 things
a) Fruity
b) soundcard
c) monitors
This can NOT be my fault. Its has to be something else I'm overlooking. |
I picked a few sentences out of your original post. Regarding the first and last ones - yes, there are reasons for your mixes sounding low/weak, otherwise they wouldn't sound low/weak. And if it's not your fault, whose fault is it? Are you going to take full responsibility for getting your songs sounding amazing, or not? Are you going to keep taking things for granted, in terms of your kick sounding fine on it's own, your bass sounding fine on it's own...or are you going to spend a few weeks focussing on nothing but trying to get your low end tight and defined? In my experience, if you create a solid low end foundation, you won't have any concerns about the overall loudness of your song.
edit - as subtle said, it takes a lot of time, and a lot of attention to the very small details, the things you may "take for granted". A rule of thumb for becoming great/ a genius is the 10,000 hour rule, also known as the 10 year rule - spend 20 hours a week for 10 years, focussing only on improving your skills every day, and you'll be seen as a genius.
In terms of your equipment, I'd say the monitors are the issue. You need to be able to hear what you're doing, to be aware of small imbalances across the frequency spectrum. Good quality headphones can also be helpful. Though take care of your ears, mix as quietly as possible.
If you'd like me to do a mixdown for you, send me a pm. There is a reason you can't get the levels you're wanting, and it's due to the sounds you're trying to combine. |
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| EgosXII |
you're constantly starting threads like this man.. :(
it has to be noted that people can make good tunes on any gear. there's a number of pros, and innovative pros at that who use simply a laptop with crappy headphones and get good results. the only thing gear does is make things easier, which is important, but it doesn't make something good or bad in that extreme.. |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
This has been an issue for so long I'm even thinking about exploring new DAWS now.
...
I literally feel like Fruity is rendering under the same audio engine some bull like ejay uses.
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There's nothing wrong with FL studio in the sound quality department. Most of the inbuilt effects are low quality though.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Should I start by getting a soundcard first or the monitors? Whats more important iyo?
Does a soundcard affect the rendering quality of a mix?
Like will a better soundcard result in a higher quality mix from computer to cd? If not then I see no point in even having one. I know monitors help by not coloring the sound, but I am pissed.
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A soundcard will let you hear the music more accurately, making your mixing/mastering efforts more precise, but this goes hand in hand with your monitors. Onboard sound is absolute crap. Some cards have SNR as low as 80db and a load of jitter. You even get a lot of distortion because there's so much EM interference around the chips. If you don't want to spend much, I would get a cheap soundcard like an M-Audio 24/96 and some 6" Behringers.
More to the point though... Didn't you buy a Xiosynth? Why did you buy a Xiosynth before a soundcard and decent speakers? Even more to the point... why the hell aren't you using the Xiosynth as your soundcard?
Am I thinking of someone else?
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
This can NOT be my fault. Its has to be something else I'm overlooking. |
Actually, it can lol.
Post some of your songs and we can tell you what the most likely cause is. If the songs completely suck anus, then we will know whether it is you or the gear; if you know what you are doing, you should have no problems making an "OK" song on just about anything. |
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| Kismet7 |
| You really don't have much use for one without the other. What are you going to connect monitors to without a soundcard? Save up and get both, but soundcard would be first, since you can use it for higher quality renders of your music at least. Meanwhile get by with some cheap monitors you've at least know well enough. |
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| sixofour.604 |
| Sound card has nothing to do with the quality of the render. Ive rendered mp3s and wavs on a pc with no sound device. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by sixofour.604
Sound card has nothing to do with the quality of the render. |
But it does make a difference in playback, which will help you monitor more effectively. |
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| DJ RANN |
Great points in here but I strongly disagree with one;
DO COMPARE YOU MIXES TO RELEASED TRACKS. I was talking to Ali (Dubfire/Deepdish) a few months back and I asked what one piece of advice he would give for a producer wanting to go to the next level with their productions.....and that was it. Find producers you like and A/B your stuff to theirs. Don't copy them, but try to understand what makes them stand out to you, what qualities you like, how full they are, etc. It's one of the most effective ways to improve what you feel is missing.
As already stated here in this thread, soundcards are and are not important, depending on your situation. The reasoning is spot on, but no use if everything else isn't complimentary. For instance if you have good monitors then it will make sense to get a better soundcard to be able to take advantage of the increase in fidelity. If you have crap speakers, it makes no sense apart from defeating latency issues (if you have them).
Bear in mind as echo stated some internal soundcards only have a SNR of 80db which means that if you try to calibrate to k20/18/14 then you'll already be distorting.
Get good monitors - it's the single biggest upgrade you'll make to your producing. |
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