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Piracy is absolutely justifiable. Except when it's physical. (pg. 2)
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| KiNeTiC ENeRgY |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I'm the wrong guy to ask. I don't really follow psy trance. |
ahh I thought u used to upload some...my bad :tongue2 |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY
Hey mate...u have any new psy trance sets? |
Check out the DJ Promotion forum, there are tons out this week. Like mine for example :p lol /selfpromotion
I think in a lot of cases, people steal movies or music just for their own personal enjoyment, not to burn DVD's and sell them for profit, so one could say that since they're not using it for anything other than personal enjoyment, pirating is okay. There are plenty of black people by the Wal Mart near my house who sell burned DVD's tho :haha: |
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| KiNeTiC ENeRgY |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
Check out the DJ Promotion forum, there are tons out this week. Like mine for example :p lol /selfpromotion
I think in a lot of cases, people steal movies or music just for their own personal enjoyment, not to burn DVD's and sell them for profit, so one could say that since they're not using it for anything other than personal enjoyment, pirating is okay. There are plenty of black people by the Wal Mart near my house who sell burned DVD's tho :haha: |
what's this shakey transistion BS...I want perfection bro. J/K mate I'll give it a go. |
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| Akridrot |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Of course it's flawed. In fact, it's so obviously flawed that there is a Latin term for the flaw. That logic is an argumentum ad populum - an appeal to popularity. Just because lots of people bought or liked something (and just because millions bought something doesn't necessarily mean they liked it - walk into any second hand videogames shop and see how many copies of Halo 3 they have) does not give it any inherent worth or merit.
You're trying to prove that good stuff will get bought. That just isn't true, as you'd surely realise if you collect music. For every great record everyone knows, there are a dozen that are just as good but are forgotten, unknown, unappreciated. Stuff like Halo 3 becomes "culturally significant" not because of inherent merit but because of a combination of hefty marketing, design by demographic and crowd pleasing traits.
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So I have made a logical fallacy. Point taken.
Hmmm. So then, why does it make us mad when something good isn't popular if nothing we do can make it popular? Why does that upset you? Perhaps that was the way it was meant to be for that thing?
We can't make people stop supporting certain things that are Bad (you yourself agree with this and used it as an example), and we can't make them support or even like things that are Good (I think that this is a perfectly sound statement).
Ultimately, does it matter if someone pirates or not? Does it truly matter? As long as you got to hear and support Good music, outside of that, why do you care if other people don't hear or don't support it if they don't want to? You are free and so are they. If they support it, then great! If not, then too bad.
I can't see it any other way. This is the way things were meant to be, just because we'd like a better Humanity doesn't mean we will get a better Humanity.
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Because, in the age of online samples, Youtube, Myspace and DJs, piracy is the only way to let people hear something, right? |
I still hold that it isn't inherently wrong.
Just because those exist doesn't mean that piracy shouldn't exist. Piracy even happens through Youtube and
Myspace and DJs (records that shouldn't have been played yet, or at all). |
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| Zombie0915 |
I find that I buy very little EDM, much of it I don't have the same appreciation for when it is on a CD, this kind of music really doesn't translate to well to my car, home, handhelf stereo. I usually download liveset recordings.
What I do drop a lot of money on is going out to see them in clubs, if it is a good weekend ill go out twice and drop almost 200 dollars partying. From what I can tell the club gets most of the money and pays a flat rate to the musician no matter how much money the club makes in cover and drinks and stuff.
I get the occasional compiliations and stuff, but I find that a lot of the EDM is really less enjoyable outside of a liveset or without a dancefloor, so most of my EDM home music collection is set recordings which are on the net for free. I don't even listen to those sets much because I usually turn on a stream when im on the web.
And, all those tracks on youtube is the greatest anti-pirate development I've seen so far, if I wanna know what a track sounds like, I can find it without stealing it. I'm not sure about the "free promotion" excuse for downloading copied music anymore. Perhaps that was valid in 1999, but these days the music is on the net where people can check it out, and link it to their friends, which just about kills the "help people discover stuff" justification for copying music.
Hulu does the same thing for TV shows, movies and software don't really have something like that, but don't really need it as badly. When I download stuff, I know im stealing, there is no longer any justification to make me feel better about myself.
The one thing I still have against intellectual property is that the limit on copyright is for too long, that culture would be better served with a shorter term. I agree that IP cant be just like real property because there is an infinite supply, the work needs to be fed back into the public domain eventually, because then it contributes to the culture and enables other art to stand on it's shoulders. Funny how you mentioned disney, because disney style creativity, lifting things from public domain to create something new, is a lot more difficult these days because IP is locked down for "artists lifetime + 75 years + whatever the lawyers can milk out". |
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| Akridrot |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0915
And, all those tracks on youtube is the greatest anti-pirate development I've seen so far. |
http://downthisvideo.com/ --> Youtube video converted to .flv file for your personal enjoyment off-line.
Piracy or just another way to use Youtube?
Repeated viewings of content on Youtube as opposed to repeated viewings of content from Youtube off of Youtube's site are different?
Are you going to argue that there should be a limit to the number of times someone is allowed to watch something before they have to buy it since they watch it so many times? |
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| KiNeTiC ENeRgY |
| quote: | Originally posted by Akridrot
http://downthisvideo.com/ --> Youtube video converted to .flv file for your personal enjoyment off-line.
Piracy or just another way to use Youtube?
Repeated viewings of content on Youtube as opposed to repeated viewings of content from Youtube off of Youtube's site are different?
Are you going to argue that there should be a limit to the number of times someone is allowed to watch something before they have to buy it since they watch it so many times? |
From a legal standpoint, youtube is not something u download, hence u dont have it stored on your PC to use anyway u see fit. This is like hearing the track on the radio. |
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| ziptnf |
| quote: | Originally posted by KiNeTiC ENeRgY
what's this shakey transistion BS...I want perfection bro. J/K mate I'll give it a go. |
I wish I was perfect :rolleyes: That mix was ing hard to spin, I was so nervous :nervous: |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Akridrot
Hmmm. So then, why does it make us mad when something good isn't popular if nothing we do can make it popular? Why does that upset you? Perhaps that was the way it was meant to be for that thing? |
I never said it upset me. I'm well aware most of my tastes are somewhat niche and specialist, and the things I like will never be popular. For me, that makes it my responsibility to keep the niche alive, because if I don't put money into it, there aren't many other people who will.
I do plenty to spread the word about good music. I write music reviews, I make DJ mixes and share them online. I post about things on forums so other people can hear about them.
I think the unfortunate reality is that if you give people an entire track for nothing, even if they like it, not many of them are going to buy the same thing again. If you play a track in a set or if you link to it on Youtube or Myspace then people will pay for the full thing, provided they like it.
| quote: | | I still hold that it isn't inherently wrong. |
Me too, but I don't think it's "absolutely justifiable" as you claimed. I have no problem pirating very popular things, exactly because the creators will have made plenty of money anyway. I often pirate things which are out of print or have been deleted, because there's no way my money would go to the artist anyway.
But if I love something and want to keep it alive, I can't just say "someone else will pay". I'd be the one who suffered when what I liked stopped being made because of financial problems. |
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| Ghost Raver |
Awesome. Another thread on piracy :rolleyes: Also, tl;dr
I'm still going to keep downloading music, games and movies and keep paying for what I see worth my money. Just now I tried this awesome game called Battle Moon Wars, and I'm definitely going to buy this as soon as I get the money for it and actually find some place where I can buy it. :)
Willing to pay for something I like, so I don't consider downloading these tracks or what ever beforehand a bad practice at all. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Akridrot
The only time piracy, as opposed to purchasing, can be considered stealing is when it actually is stealing. Going into a movie theater and taking up a seat that a ticket-buyer could have filled = stealing the theater's resources.
Listening to a song that's blasting out of someone's speakers and even recording it != stealing. It is akin to recording bird chirps. It is akin to saying that remembering the music video you saw on MTV at a friend's house is stealing since you didn't purchase the single on iTunes. You can steal a CD, you cannot steal a song (but you can plagiarize one). It doesn't even make a difference if the person blasting the song bought the CD or didn't. |
MTV paid for the license to play said song - so the artist does indeed profit from your watching it on MTV. The opposite is true for recording it illegally for distribution - the artist does not profit, and there is infringement on the copyright held by the artist or artist's representative (label). Though intellectual property is not a physical entity, it does represent the culmination of labor and capital invested to produce it, and as such is protected by law. There's a reason piracy is illegal - it violates a fundamental principle of the market - the exchange of goods at value. |
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| Akridrot |
Art ≠ Product in my mind because I see it entirely as doing something you love to do, so creating it isn't labor and just because you spent capital to make something you love doesn't mean that everyone experiences it has to remunerate you.
This relates to people who study something in a university so that they can get a high-paying job and others who study it because they feel as if they were born to study and contribute to that area of knowledge. You can't be mad if the actual nature of the positions you get (if any) differ from what you expected, if the amount of money is far less than what you were led to believe, or if you find that you weren't as good or great as you thought you were compared to others in that field, etc.
We don't owe every single artist the ability to make more Art. It is not like product, it's a different beast entirely. |
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