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Making the kick thump harder (pg. 2)
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| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
I looked at Gareth Emery's "Metropolis" and the biggest thing I noticed that the kick is nothing like the ultra limited kicks you get in those sample packs. |
And yet, heaps and heaps of today's best sounding songs use sample packs such as Vengeance, Thomas Penton, Ueberschall, Sounds of Revolution and others, and they have fantastic sounding kicks.
Similar to what several people have already said:
1) Choose the kick sample which sounds the way you want your kick to sound, set an appropriate level and send it straight through to the master channel without processing.
2) You're done.
If it doesn't sound good after this, you've either chosen the wrong sample, or the sounds around it are wrong.
In general, most sounds should be approached in this manner - they should sound good in the mix straight up without processing. Once you have a decent mix, then you can start honing things, cutting away frequencies with EQ, applying musically pleasing compression and so on. Some kicks I'll cut the subs away from (under around 40Hz), some I won't. The processing is very minimal though. |
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| dannib |
The best way to get the perfect kick for me is to buy a drum machine. Something cheap like the mbase 01 will do.
Design the kick to work with the track and record it in so its in key with your track. Then layer this kick with a processed kick sample, i will always use the mbase 01 for the low end and punch and the sample for the upper mids and highs.
The kicks you get on cds like thomas pentons are really really bad imo. There is no punch whatsover! and they are completely overcompressed and limited with what sounds like waves L2 as well. |
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| dannib |
The best way to get the perfect kick for me is to buy a drum machine. Something cheap like the mbase 01 will do.
Design the kick to work with the track and record it in so its in key with your track. Then layer this kick with a processed kick sample, i will always use the mbase 01 for the low end and punch and the sample for the upper mids and highs.
The kicks you get on cds like thomas pentons are really really bad imo. There is no punch whatsover! and they are completely overcompressed and limited with what sounds like waves L2 as well. |
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| david.michael |
| quote: | Originally posted by dannib
completely overcompressed and limited with what sounds like waves L2 |
How could you possibly know that? |
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| sixofour.604 |
| quote: | Originally posted by david.michael
How could you possibly know that? |
Because all Daws, all FX and all Synths have a distinctive sound that completely gives them away, didn't you know? |
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| dannib |
| quote: | | How could you possibly know that? |
I dont know for sure. But hes obviously used the same limiter on every sound, as they have a distinctive (horrible) character. Why limit the samples?
I say Waves L2 because i get that exact sound when overusing the L2. When over limited like those sounds are, you lose a lot of sub-bass, all the dynamics and snap of the kick and introduce a horrible mid-range distortion too.
It just reminds me of the Waves L2 thats all. |
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| david.michael |
| quote: | Originally posted by dannib
I dont know for sure. But hes obviously used the same limiter on every sound, as they have a distinctive (horrible) character. Why limit the samples?
I say Waves L2 because i get that exact sound when overusing the L2. When over limited like those sounds are, you lose a lot of sub-bass, all the dynamics and snap of the kick and introduce a horrible mid-range distortion too.
It just reminds me of the Waves L2 thats all. |
I just don't understand how over-limiting a sound in L2 would sound different using any other tool to do it... but, I could definitely be wrong.
To answer your question, "Why limit the samples?", I'd guess for probably the same reason today's songs are all squashed to hell.... upon first quick glance, it sounds "better", "hotter", or "more professional", which = more $$$. Loudness war is even affecting our ingredients! |
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| dannib |
With the L2 i find their are many artifacts when pushing the limiter. I find i can push the UAD precision limiter a lot further and still retain a fair sound. The L2 distorts the signal quicker and sounds harsh imo.
I wouldn't read into it too much, the sounds just reminded me of it, thats all. |
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| cryophonik |
I agree that the Penton kicks are terribly overlimited (one look at their waveforms will tell you that!) and I really wish they would've provided more raw/less limited samples instead and leave the extreme processing up to the user. But, I definitely wouldn't say that they lack punch or sound terrible - they sound much better than the Vengeance samples IMO and don't have the artifacts that the Vengeance samples have.
I'm generally in the "find a good sample and stick with it" camp, although I tend to layer a couple of kick samples pretty frequently. For example, I'll find one sample that has a nice round bottom end, but little attack, so I'll layer it with a sample that has the attack I'm looking for (I'll hi-pass filter it to isolate the attack frequencies). I do this because most sample packs seem to have kicks that are either too clubby (hard) or too housey (soft) IMO and I generally tend to like a compromise between the two. |
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| david.michael |
| quote: | Originally posted by dannib
With the L2 i find their are many artifacts when pushing the limiter. I find i can push the UAD precision limiter a lot further and still retain a fair sound. The L2 distorts the signal quicker and sounds harsh imo.
I wouldn't read into it too much, the sounds just reminded me of it, thats all. |
Gotchya. :) Didn't realize that. |
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| Evolve140 |
Try this:
Choose your kick first before anything else. On your bassline when/if you sidechain it, try using the same kick for the SC sample; if the kick is too long it will up your sidechaining effort, so try using the same kick sample for your side chain but shorten the kick envelop a little so there is not much sustain on it (ergo, the first thump of the kick and no real tail at the end, accordingly... the tail of the kick lingers in the compressors and ... yeah. it sucks).
EQ your bassline precisely, wipe out some bottom end as needed but quality is more desirable than quantity since a precision cut can make or break a kick/bass mix down. Grab the Vengeance sample packs, they are designed to be put immediately into tracks. They do not need editing and there are almost a thousand kicks to choose from. If you mix and EQ your track properly the kick will stand out exactly as it needs to.
It's not how loud or powerful your kick is, but how well it fits with your other elements in the mix. Basslines with a long tail contain bass frequencies, so you have to keep that in mind when inserting a bassline that occupies the same frequencies. The clear kick you are looking for is a kick that is not competing for frequencies with the bassline, which creates mud.
Oh yeah, shortening the kick (like I described for the SC) can also sound pretty good if you just want a thumpy sound. And don't forget, you might just be choosing the wrong kicks :D |
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| mzvirbulis |
| From what i know now, just get a good kick that you specifically want, it needs certain character to have thump. Compression will only get u so far. Also its very easy to induce audible distortion in the kick by compressing the kick, depending on the compressor you use! |
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