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Rythmic chords and pads how do you do it? (pg. 2)
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by noicuc
The plucky Saw is playing
I-IV-V
while the bassy pad is just playing I
Thats about it.. 3 chords playing supported by 1 pad |
Exactly - that's just a "pedaled" progression and it's very common in a lot of music. The term "pedaled" is derived from organists as I recall because they hold down one bass pedal note while playing other chords over the top. But, that's a little different than this:
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
I know they are in the same scale and what your getting at is for example if you play F maj [F A C] and another intrument plays A minor [A C E] then the 'E' in A minor is in fact the 7th of F major therefore it sounds ok. |
In this example, you're building a more complex chord out of two relatively simple chords by stacking two chords that have overlapping notes (they share thirds):
Fmaj (FAC) + Amin (ACE) = Fmaj7 (FACE)
You can take that even further and get some very lush chords:
Fmaj (FAC) + Amin7 (ACEG) = F9 (FACEG)
etc.
But, yes, the key is having shared notes and few half-step intervals (unless they're played in different parts of the register) to minimize dissonance (unless that's what you want). |
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| G-Con |
Reading this thread reaffirms my belief that if I learned music theory, it would actually hamper my productions rather than improve them.
As it is, I know nothing at all. I just play what sounds right to me. Yes, there is trial and error involved to begin with, but I've found that overtime I have become better and better at knowing what will sound right and knowing which notes I want to play.
I've always wondered whether I should learn some proper theory. But I fear that if I did, I would get too caught up in what "should" I be playing? what scale am I in? is this chord allowed? is that progression ok? etc etc. I believe this would cause me to play melodies that might be technically sound but lack the mood, emotion I would normally achieve through feel and instinct. I fear they would probably sound very generic.
I'm not for one moment saying that music theory is pointless or that it has no real benefit. But for me, I feel that if you are very experienced at music theory then its an excellent attribute to have. If, however, you are learning the ropes, it can actually be a hindrance.
Obviously, we're all different. Some people may not know how to begin writing a melody without learning some theory. I trust my ear and thats good enough for me. I'll never write anything complex, but then imo, the best melodies never are... |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
I've always wondered whether I should learn some proper theory. But I fear that if I did, I would get too caught up in what "should" I be playing? what scale am I in? is this chord allowed? is that progression ok? etc etc.
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I think that's probably only true if you think of music theory as a set of "rules" - it's not. It's really simply a way of communicating musical concepts. In a way, it's very much like learning a language - the larger your vocabulary, the better you are at explaining concepts and the more tools (i.e., words) you have at your disposal when writing. Also, you probably know and utilize a lot more music theory than you think you do. |
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| justjabbin |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
Reading this thread reaffirms my belief that if I learned music theory, it would actually hamper my productions rather than improve them.
As it is, I know nothing at all. I just play what sounds right to me. |
If your playing what sounds "right" to you in EDM, rock, pop, etc, than whether you are aware of it or not you are following western music theory. The only reason things sound right or wrong is based on the fact that you have listened to a lot of music based on this theory over the years and subconsciously been trained to have things sound right or wrong based on what you have heard.
Like cryophonik said understanding this gives you more knowledge and more knowledge is power. Its interesting in EDM since I see posts like this all the time where someone thinks music theory will hurt them but you never hear anyone say anything like "that is why I don't want to learn better production techniques...it will hurt my creativity."
I think this might be why there are less memorable tracks out these days, the productions are awesome but often times musically they are forgetable, and boring:D |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by justjabbin
I think this might be why there are less memorable tracks out these days, the productions are awesome but often times musically they are forgetable, and boring |
I agree.
In the long run musical brilliance will win every time. Any technical trick you can use will eventually sound dated, or at least much less impressive than when it was first used. But great melodies or rhythms will continue to draw people in long after your "cutting edge" synth sounds, effects, or editing tricks are considered old hat.
;) |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by justjabbin
Its interesting in EDM since I see posts like this all the time where someone thinks music theory will hurt them but you never hear anyone say anything like "that is why I don't want to learn better production techniques...it will hurt my creativity."
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Excellent point!
Hopefully, this doesn't sound too accusatory, but I think part of the problem is also that music theory seems much harder to learn than production techniques because it is so conceptual and not as tangible. With production, you can push a button or turn a knob and hear and see results, whereas with music theory you're dealing with more abstract concepts that have to be learned more by reading and listening to/playing a lot of music, as well as learning to read music if they don't already know how. So, when a person says that they don't want to learn music theory because it will hamper their creativity, I often wonder if the unspoken message is that they really just wonder if learning it is worth their time and energy. |
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| justjabbin |
yes, I wasn't trying to point fingers at the OP just making a general point. ;)
Bottom line is a great musical piece is timeless and unforgettable regardless of genre. Production techniques, although very important, are trendy. Thus IMO music theory can only help you not hurt you. |
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| floyd741 |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
Reading this thread reaffirms my belief that if I learned music theory, it would actually hamper my productions rather than improve them.
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Great, someone who else who is too ignorant to understand the benefits of music theory. For some reason everyone thinks that when you learn it you can't be creative anymore and that you can only follow the rules. Just because you know the rules doesn't mean you're bound to the rules, to think so is absolutely ridiculous. |
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| Sonic_c |
I cant disagree more I have been learning theory at a reasonable level for about a year at first it made it harder to write tracks but only because I wanted them to sound harmonically correct.
As soon as I was over the threshold of finding it difficult to grasp it massively boosted my creativity especially voice leading and progressions.
I have just started a label as you all know and one of the demos I got sent was great but he had a dissonant chord in the drop. Now I could tell it wasnt intended it was uplifting plucky style.
When i got the midi I realised the chords were just basic 5th chords 2 notes so I bounced it back to him with a smoother prog and some 3rds and things and it sounds much richer.
I couldnt do that a year ago. |
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| floyd741 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
I cant disagree more I have been learning theory at a reasonable level for about a year at first it made it harder to write tracks but only because I wanted them to sound harmonically correct.
As soon as I was over the threshold of finding it difficult to grasp it massively boosted my creativity especially voice leading and progressions.
I have just started a label as you all know and one of the demos I got sent was great but he had a dissonant chord in the drop. Now I could tell it wasnt intended it was uplifting plucky style.
When i got the midi I realised the chords were just basic 5th chords 2 notes so I bounced it back to him with a smoother prog and some 3rds and things and it sounds much richer.
I couldnt do that a year ago. |
perfect example of why it's worth it to spend the time learning music theory. Until now I was in a music technology class which only had a little theory mixed in. Currently I'm in a class called Music Seminar which is full blown theory and history. It's going to be a fun semester :) . |
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| Akridrot |
Learning Music Theory is like learning Grammar. You do not lose any of the original concepts in your mind and it allows you to grasp and experiment with higher structures (and concepts). Also, don't forget that it allows you to analyze and figure out things that would puzzle you to no end at this stage in your musical life.
Essentially, once you learn some Music Theory, you are able to creatively break the rules and create more complex pieces than you could right now. The same way you can make a simple one voice melody and "know" when the notes that follow each other are "right," is the same way you'd easily be able to create a gigantic harmonic sequence and "know" when the notes are "right," allowing you to add subtle dissonance and your own unique touches.
Without music theory, you could do the same (in theory, hah hah), but it would be far more time consuming and most of that time would be trial-and-error and you'd be reinventing the wheel anyway. You're spending time creatively figuring out things that have been figured out centuries ago. Do you really want to be that guy? Making music IS time consuming and trial-and-error, but do understand that while you might find it amusing when you watch musically gifted novices struggle to create simple melodies, someone else would find it amusing to watch you struggle to create your entire songs.
NOTE: None of this applies to the EXTREMELY TALENTED EXCEPTIONS that exist out there. Don't ever blindly follow them and copy what they do thinking that doing so will turn you into an EXTREMELY TALENTED EXCEPTION. That isn't the case, and it has never been.
You can copy their habits, but you cannot copy their talent. That applies to everything. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Excellent point!
Hopefully, this doesn't sound too accusatory, but I think part of the problem is also that music theory seems much harder to learn than production techniques because it is so conceptual and not as tangible. With production, you can push a button or turn a knob and hear and see results, whereas with music theory you're dealing with more abstract concepts that have to be learned more by reading and listening to/playing a lot of music, as well as learning to read music if they don't already know how. So, when a person says that they don't want to learn music theory because it will hamper their creativity, I often wonder if the unspoken message is that they really just wonder if learning it is worth their time and energy. |
Well from personal experience never having learned music theory, it definitely opened me musically to a lot of creativity and engineering technicality that was invaluable. But knowing some music theory definitely makes the process smoother and more dynamic.
I'd say dabble a little bit in both.
I wasn't really able to "get" music theory until I picked up a real instrument and got a hands on feel for the what and why. |
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