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The black art of 'evening out' different bass notes - how the heck is it done? (pg. 2)
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by Morvan
Try transposing it to an area where the lowest notes are not too low. That's the way it's done in all Genres. |
Yea that's a good idea. Next track I do I will check the lowest bass note ealy on to make sure it is'nt dissapearing so much compared with the higher bass notes. |
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| johno27 |
| You might want to try a Dynamic EQ. You can have it triggered by the pitch of the bass note that causes the excessive resonance, and have it apply a cut at that same point. You could achieve the same with using a normal EQ and automation. This is the way I do it and they way I know most pro's would too... there's no big secret. Sometimes with some bass lines it wont be necessary at all, but in terms of engineering that's the way a sonic problem like that would be addressed. |
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| owien |
just write the bass pattern shorter and better then you're now so you have more controll over it.
if i want lower bass i make it less intresting as posssable and use some type of wave shaper to pin in down into the mix |
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| johno27 |
To add to what I posted,
It is very important to pick the right sounds in the first place, and ones that work well with your pattern and key choice.
It often helps to layer bass sounds, or when using multiple oscillators on a synth have one osc an octave up or down. Experiment to find a sweet spot where you have enough harmonic content, the punch from being in the right frequency range and not being too low or muddy.
Sampling bass patches can work very well as previously mentioned as it ensures that every note played is essentially using the same "source" audio. IE: There is no shift in oscillators phase/modulations etc. So by having that full re-trigger the transient of the bass sound will be consistent. Once again this isn't a golden rule but yet another technique to try.
Also remember with bass lines that when layering you have basically 2 options :
1) layering using the same pattern (IE: changing the nature of the sound of you bass.. by adding in harmonics and complexity you might not get from a single patch).
and 2) applying different patterns to the layers. This might include some of the effect of 1 but is more likely done to create a groove/roll in the low end. Perhaps a simple off beat sub bass combined with a faster 1/16th note mid-bass patern.
Another thing I've also stopped doing is making bass sounds 100% mono.. don't sacrifice your bass sounds by making the entire channel mono. Rather post-process say <60hz into mono and leave the highs there. This lets you add some stereo delay etc, but in a range that won't be problematic with vinyl cutters or subs. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
You might want to try a Dynamic EQ. You can have it triggered by the pitch of the bass note that causes the excessive resonance, and have it apply a cut at that same point. You could achieve the same with using a normal EQ and automation. This is the way I do it and they way I know most pro's would too... there's no big secret. Sometimes with some bass lines it wont be necessary at all, but in terms of engineering that's the way a sonic problem like that would be addressed. |
Yep - that's my conclusion - automate the EQ, if the sound I like happens to resonate on some notes.
BTW - anyone have an opinion on RP Subboombass? The demos on his site don't tell me anything and on my work PC monitors the sounds are no different to those that can be had from most soft synths. But that maybe just down to bad demos / bad PC speakers - so wondering what others have found. |
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| Alphadelta |
I think (and this applies to a lot of areas) that it's easy to hear commercial/ "pro" stuff and strive too hard, frustrate yourself, and look for highly complex/expensive ways of trying to achieve the same quality of sound..
I know exactly what you're referring to here, Richard - I've fought with the exact same issue before several times. But I think advice so far like transposing it according to the style/melodies used, and choosing the right sounds in the first place is the best advice you/we could get.. In fact, I'm convinced that if all of us seek out solutions in the more basic methods a bit more (instead of assuming there MUST be some magic plugin/technique out there) we'd all be less frustrated..
And lets not forget that (although it's all about a good sounding mix in the first place) the end result is polished by paid mastering engineers who can help tweak the final bass end to sound rich and consistent throughout anyway..
All of that said, there may be a plug in out there which does it all for you!! In which case I'll take 2... ;-) |
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| cryophonik |
Nicely put, Alphadelta. ^^^
And, to paraphrase, the best solution is often the simplest and most obvious. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alphadelta
I think (and this applies to a lot of areas) that it's easy to hear commercial/ "pro" stuff and strive too hard, frustrate yourself, and look for highly complex/expensive ways of trying to achieve the same quality of sound..
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That's a very considered response, cheers mate.
Take home message for me from this thread, is look to the simple solutions first as they may well be just the medicine needed.
Something I want to say though on this 'professional' sound. There are a few 'amateurs' on the anjunabeats production forum that have pinned down this polished sound, some with softsynths alone, so the good news is that anyone with enough determination should be ableto do it, but it's still a black art.
One guy on there called serafim says he's only been producing 1 year and already he's just been signed, so I must be a slow learner I guess. |
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| Alphadelta |
| quote: | | [i][b]One guy on there called serafim says he's only been producing 1 year and already he's just been signed, so I must be a slow learner I guess. |
Without taking anything away from him -or any producers getting fast results- a lot of that is to do with the technology and quality of software sounds available now at a click... I think all of us can claim to have progressed at least slightly, since (and forgive me for saying this) the Vengeance (and other) sample sets came about. Add to that the YouTube/ICT resources available to us all now - which visually show us how to craft a particular sound, EQ, SIDE-F***INGCHAIN!! or fit the kickdrum with the bass..
I'm waiting for the next generation of YouTube etc.. which will hopefully allow us to beam into the studio with our idols (much like Princess Leah out of R2D2) and sit and ask questions for a bit!! I'm sure I could nail this producing lark in a day with a sit down Q and A session like that!!
Actually.... :-/ |
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| macrocosm |
| first make sure it's not your speakers. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
One guy on there called serafim says he's only been producing 1 year and already he's just been signed, so I must be a slow learner I guess. |
I wouldn't use that as your measuring stick for several reasons. First, getting signed is not a very high hurdle these days, so that's not necessarily an indication of one's talent in and of itself. Second, some people just have a knack for picking up music production despite having little experience or formal training, whereas others have to work harder at it. And, for all we know, that guy has 18 hours in a day to produce, whereas our schedules may only allow for 1 or 2 hours per day or whatever, etc. So, in other words, don't look at other people's successes as your failure. |
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| Tarpex |
Check the meters on your bass track. If they're solid, then it's either the speakers / your room / whatever.
Otherwise, you have to realize that lower the frequency, less sonic energy coming out as volume there will be, so learn to use compressors. Properly.
Think that's the key, since you said you've tried different compressors and you'd still get ed over.
Set a really low threshold, 4:1 ratio, hard knee, lowest attack and shortest release, limit to the volume of your least strong note and you'll hear the compressor working hard to keep your bass volume in level at all times; After that you'll get a good impression of what it's doing and work on your settings from there, lowering the ratio, softening up the threshold, knee and so on, it may take a while but then it'll be almost an automated proccess with each track.
The 50-90 hz range is a bitch to control, takes some work but it pays off.
I won't say experiment with settings, since it's bull, just try to learn exactly what compressors do, since i'd bet all my money it's poor compression that's screwing your bass.
That's covering one side of the story; the other thing has to be mentioned, since you like to compare side by side with top-produced on the market.
You have to realize that the good bass in itself isn't worth jack , there's the rest of the track that'll destroy a perfectly good bass.. You have to engineer your tune so all the elements fit with each other, that they complement each other, not fight for sonic space.
Usually the biggest mistake is writing a mello, then browsing some presets on your favorite synth, finding the most awesome sound, and then going to the next mello, and then wondering how the it sounds like crap when you turn the solo key off.
Key here is to find sounds that work well together, and they're usually not the best presets you're listening on solo (I figure you're not that much experienced, so let's keep the synthesis out of the debate, no offense intended!), then incorporate the sounds in the track sonically, EQ accordingly, then analyze, how much dynamics, if any, does the sound need? How will it fit with master compression/limiting in the end?
It's a lot of things to talk about, just try to concentrate on compressing your bass right and not drowning it with other sounds in the mix :) |
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