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Apple Mac, Logic and the rest
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| johno27 |
So I moved to mac about 4 years ago from a PC setup for all my production.. just recently I'm starting to feel more and more like the Mac is actually a huge hinderance in my creativity.
Obviously my machine is no longer top spec, a dual G5 2.5ghz/6gig ram.. I have however kept the OS and logic etc all fully updated.
For some reason, perahps others of you who work on pc and mac might find this too.. that I always feel constrained and bogged down when working on a mac... the way the mouse works (its sort of sluggish and grainy), the keyboard, the file system.. thats just to start.
Logic 9 seems to be a complete balls up to me.. a get note hanging with most synths, my TI is now totally useless.. and the UI has gotten slower from 7 to 8 and now to 9.. i just feel totally un-creative sitting staring at logic these days... project settings seem to be going wonky too quite often.
Granted there is no pefect daw/system.. and I remember when I left the PC on SX3 it was making me want to kill someone with constant crashes and project corruptions.
Given the fact that any day now my PPC based mac will be so obsolete that I can no longer update anything (already happening with snow leopard and logic 9 and various synths)... I'm considering moving back to PC. For some reason Mac machines here in SA are an INSANE price.. to give you an idea, I can build a top of the range PC for about $2400.00
A new Power Mac will cost me in the region of $8000.00 ... more than I'd ever want to spend on a computer.
So really my questions are, does anyone else feel this way working on mac these days? especially if like me you're stuck with a PPC one.. and if anyone has moved back to PC, how is cubase 5 these days (does it make you want to kill someone still?) and are there any good recommendations on what components / os versions / drivers etc to use to actually get a stable system for production?
Any info or thoughts would be appreciated |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
For some reason, perahps others of you who work on pc and mac might find this too.. that I always feel constrained and bogged down when working on a mac... the way the mouse works (its sort of sluggish and grainy), the keyboard, the file system.. thats just to start.
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I dont experience any of these problems, even when I had a G4.
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
Logic 9 seems to be a complete balls up to me.. a get note hanging with most synths, my TI is now totally useless.. and the UI has gotten slower from 7 to 8 and now to 9.. i just feel totally un-creative sitting staring at logic these days... project settings seem to be going wonky too quite often.
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I'm not sure that creativity is a function of your DAW. You say you have a PPC, but you are on Logic 9? How is that possible when Logic 9 is Intel only?
EDIT: Apparently you can do that, but if Apple doesn't officially support it, then its probably not a good idea.
Here is another tip: Never, ever install the latest bleeding edge software on your studio machine if you have any interest in getting work done. Wait until they have a service release or two because there are always bugs to be worked out.
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
Granted there is no pefect daw/system.. and I remember when I left the PC on SX3 it was making me want to kill someone with constant crashes and project corruptions.
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Again, I have a few problems here and there but they are few and far between. The above scenario with your former PC also sounds like a system-specific problem.
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
Given the fact that any day now my PPC based mac will be so obsolete that I can no longer update anything (already happening with snow leopard and logic 9 and various synths)... I'm considering moving back to PC. For some reason Mac machines here in SA are an INSANE price.. to give you an idea, I can build a top of the range PC for about $2400.00
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While it is unfortunate that PPC users are being abandoned by Apple, it was necessary for Apple to switch CPU technology to keep up with the pace of technology. A brand new Mac Pro is exactly the same cost, $2,400.
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
A new Power Mac will cost me in the region of $8000.00 ... more than I'd ever want to spend on a computer.
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$8000?? Where did you get that number?? Follow this link and you'll see that a new Mac Pro is $2,400.
http://store.apple.com/us_smb_78313.../family/mac_pro
Look, it is quite possible that you just dont like Macs. It sure sounds like that based on the info you have posted. The problems you describe seem to be a specific problem with your system, not a problem with the platform in general. If you dont like Mac, thats fine, some people just cant get used to or dont like the different way that the OS works. If that is the case, then you should probably get a PC. Whatever makes you more comfortable, that is what is important for you. You need to choose the platform that works best for you.
Regarding the problems you experience, it sounds to me like you have a specific problem with your system. have you looked at Activity monitor to see if there is anything eating up your CPU? Slow mouse sounds like a CPU pegged at 100% issue. |
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| Numb |
| ^ With him. Except Logic 9 can be used on a PPC, it's just not supported. |
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| owien |
| i will say for the creative issue just go back to basics works every time;) |
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| johno27 |
With regards to the price, we cannot buy directly from apple, we have to buy from the local importers... R/$ is currently at 7:1 ... and the local price is 55k ... like most things here we get ripped.. the best price I could get (wholesale) on a pair of Focal Twins was around $7000 too..
Its not so much a case of being anti-mac (perhaps I'm just more anti-computer these days haha.. as they're all crap in some way). I just find everything I do on the mac laborious and painful.. like the mixer view in Logic.. if there are more than about 15 strips scrolling left or right gets about 1fps.. its dreadfully slow and jerky.. thats the same in 8 and 9 for me.
I've always preferred Logic's built in plugins/fx etc in relation to any other DAW.. and I'd definitely miss that if I had to move back to PC/cubase.. but by the same token there are loads of good plugs out there, and I'd keep my UAD2 card and move that across with me.
I think if I could justify the cost.. I'd stick with Mac and get a new high spec Intel based one.
I was just curious if anyone else worked on both platforms and found that (altough in some respect they prefer Logic.. that at the end of the day the simplicity and workflow just started to get in your way). |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
With regards to the price, we cannot buy directly from apple, we have to buy from the local importers... R/$ is currently at 7:1 ... and the local price is 55k ... like most things here we get ripped.. the best price I could get (wholesale) on a pair of Focal Twins was around $7000 too..
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Well, there not much you can do about then, I guess.
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
Its not so much a case of being anti-mac (perhaps I'm just more anti-computer these days haha.. as they're all crap in some way). I just find everything I do on the mac laborious and painful.. like the mixer view in Logic.. if there are more than about 15 strips scrolling left or right gets about 1fps.. its dreadfully slow and jerky.. thats the same in 8 and 9 for me.
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Again, that sounds like a specific problem with your system. Jerky mouse movement and slow scrolling performance is definitely system specific. You may want to take steps to see if you can troubleshoot that problem, because that is not normal behavior.
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
I've always preferred Logic's built in plugins/fx etc in relation to any other DAW.. and I'd definitely miss that if I had to move back to PC/cubase.. but by the same token there are loads of good plugs out there, and I'd keep my UAD2 card and move that across with me.
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So if the price ratio is 7:1 and you purchased a UAD solo card at $499 US, does that mean you paid $3500 for a UAD2 solo? |
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| johno27 |
It might be worth investigating the performance of this machine further.. I've double checked all the permissions and other things I can find with onyx etc.. all seems well. Are there any other good tools for perhaps doing diagnostics?
Not the price ratio.. the rand/dollar exchange is around 7:1 .. My UAD2 solo cost R6500.00 which = +- 920 us dollars... |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by johno27
It might be worth investigating the performance of this machine further.. I've double checked all the permissions and other things I can find with onyx etc.. all seems well. Are there any other good tools for perhaps doing diagnostics?
Not the price ratio.. the rand/dollar exchange is around 7:1 .. My UAD2 solo cost R6500.00 which = +- 920 us dollars... |
Have you opened up Activity Monitor to see if anything is eating up CPU? Also, check your RAM usage. |
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| palm |
I know how you feel...
i moved completely over to mac this summer, with the new Macbook Pro 13". I used some time before this on a mac mini to get used to OSX and while it took time to get used to it im starting to love it now, especialy now on the powerfull laptop. I even start to like iTunes now that it runs smoother than ever on Snow Leopard and iTunes 9. So im starting to be comfortable using Mac for normal computer useage. Though when it comes to music production I havent seen much from myself yet. I havent figured out Logic yet, nore ableton and i cant make in Reason anymore. I dont know what to blame anymore but it has now taken me over a year since i made a full track and its starting to wear me down, i need to finish something awesome soon to get back on track. Before when using Reason on PC i made tracks fast as hell but then it suddenly stopped. |
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| johno27 |
That's my point basically.. what I've found (and obviously this is just my personal view) is that the majority of my creativity comes from how comfortable I feel using a system and how fast I can work rather than having the absolute best of every thing and all the plug-ins known to man. I usually find restrictions help me being creative and limiting my choices gets things out faster.. take the old 4 channel mod days.. you couldn't be more restricted yet there seemed to be an endless flow of creativity and whole tracks would come out in an evening or 2.
That being said I find that these days my workflow in logic feels so clunky and painful, not just because of the overall lack of responsivness (which may be machine specific) but also because of the amount of legacy stuff that's now mixed up with Apple's attempts at new features.. like the docked in views etc. Yet they still can't fix the piano roll bug thats been there since 5..
At the end of the day it's all about what works for you and what makes you enjoy what you're doing. If you don't enjoy your environment you'll never produce anything decent... and I'm starting to think that (even though I'm not a fan of PCs/Cubase) that in terms of just sitting down at my machine and coming up with something new that it was a lot more pleasurable.
I am curious to know how people are finding Cubase 5 / PC setups.. has anymore moved to windows7 or 64bit yet? or is all production still stuck in XP/32bit on PC. |
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| palm |
| i hope that Prophead Record will give me a little boost, that i can use it to make a little better mixdowns with my Reason projects and maybe, just maybe im able to use external analog compressor (all in the shipping right now, compressor and record). |
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| sterilis |
| im the opposite. from moving to mac my overall sound is much tidier. i had to learn a new daw in logic plus i was learning to produce a new genre in techno. i feel logic has developed me as a producer further. ive did stuff to my tracks that i never thought of doing before. although i cant produce trance on it which i think is down to not enjoying that style of music anymore. |
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