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Traders can't even drive .... (pg. 9)
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
don't worry, this was the response i was expecting. if you know of anyone with more expertise on the depression than bernanke and the authors he refers to in the complete article, by all means list them and explain why their analysis is superior or more highly regarded.
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Just employ the actual economic arguments and deductive logic used to derive those arguments and the actual empirical evidence used. For example don't quote Bernanke's laymen arguments summarizing his results ... quote his actual statistical analyses results. Most people are not formally educated in economics and as such don't understand what it is you are posting when it comes to understanding statistically significant results. Those that do take the time to actually understand the results would realise that they're wrong. However most people are too lazy to make the committment to truly know what they're talking about outside of standard talking points. Ergo you avoid poisoning the well fallacies such as "since Bernake said it, it must be wrong," because in order to respond to your argument they would have to actually understand economic theory and dispute the empirical evidence.
Plus more likely than not, they don't have access to the peer reviewed economic journals that you can reference to back up your arguments haha. |
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| Guest |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: :stongue: |
AHAHAHAHAHAHA! Maybe old berney bern has a slightly vested interest in blaming a depression on gold standard? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Just employ the actual economic arguments and deductive logic used to derive those arguments and the actual empirical evidence used. For example don't quote Bernanke's laymen arguments summarizing his results ... quote his actual statistical analyses results. Most people are not formally educated in economics and as such don't understand what it is you are posting when it comes to understanding statistically significant results. Those that do take the time to actually understand the results would realise that they're wrong. However most people are too lazy to make the committment to truly know what they're talking about outside of standard talking points. Ergo you avoid poisoning the well fallacies such as "since Bernake said it, it must be wrong," because in order to respond to your argument they would have to actually understand economic theory and dispute the empirical evidence.
Plus more likely than not, they don't have access to the peer reviewed economic journals that you can reference to back up your arguments haha. |
hehe, i would love to occrider, alas its normally the laymen arguments that i manage to undertand properly! :p |
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| Communist |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
No biggie. You still haven't given me a link or source showing that gold is a direct cause of any recession or depression of the 1800s. I don't expect one from you either. ;) |
I just said I backed off the gold standard is a cause of recession if you read my post correctly...
"Let me correct myself from before. The gold standard did not cause recessions, as recessions are simply natural business cycles present in any system. But rather, commodity standards make recessions much worse than they ought to be."
I gave you plenty of reasons why it is so. And I also did link you some things, except you choose to reject out of hand anything I'm linking you, so what's the point? You won't listen to Bernanke or even entertain the thought that he just might be right. It's fine if you disagree with him, but ffs, read the damn paper, then come back to me with some pointed criticisms. I even offered to send you a peer-reviewed research paper about the foundation of our modern international monetary system (which is the gold standard), but you haven't pm'ed me your email address so I could send it to you...the offer still stands. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Communist
I just said I backed off the gold standard is a cause of recession if you read my post correctly...
"Let me correct myself from before. The gold standard did not cause recessions, as recessions are simply natural business cycles present in any system. But rather, commodity standards make recessions much worse than they ought to be."
I gave you plenty of reasons why it is so. And I also did link you some things, except you choose to reject out of hand anything I'm linking you, so what's the point? You won't listen to Bernanke or even entertain the thought that he just might be right. It's fine if you disagree with him, but ffs, read the damn paper, then come back to me with some pointed criticisms. I even offered to send you a peer-reviewed research paper about the foundation of our modern international monetary system (which is the gold standard), but you haven't pm'ed me your email address so I could send it to you...the offer still stands. |
Wait, I'm confused. You do or you don't believe that the gold standard caused the recessions of the 19th century?
Check your PM. Sending my email. Thanks! |
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| DOOMBOT |
After reading most of the Bernanke article, I'm still failing to see how the gold standard, again, caused the Depression. It appears as though he is trying to do the same thing the author of the previous article linked to me tried to say, which is correlation equals causation. Bernanke doesn't talk about all of the government stimulus, ease of credit or expansion of government during the Depression, as if none of that had anything to do with driving the country deeper into depression.
I will also say this, I don't really believe that only a gold standard alone would work either. I believe that the market itself should decide would currency it is to use and typically that has been gold AND silver and other natural metals. I also believe that the government is setting itself up for failure by simply saying "From now on, 1oz of gold is equal to $35." Well, obviously the real market value is going to change over time, especially when the government tries to print more paper notes.
And occrider, are my links from the vice president and economist in the Research Department of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland not good enough because they are too easy to come by? haha |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Yup, you and jerz did a fantastic job in here. I don't know how I'll ever be able to compete against Bernanke articles and Nixon videos.
Carry on. :haha: |
But the President of the Federal Reserve Bank in Cleveland... why, I think I'll let him make my argument for me! |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
After reading most of the Bernanke article, I'm still failing to see how the gold standard, again, caused the Depression. |
nobody is saying it did.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
the single biggest contributor to the severity and prolonging of the Great Depression was rigid adherence to the gold standard. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
But the President of the Federal Reserve Bank in Cleveland... why, I think I'll let him make my argument for me! |
I've already made my case in this thread and previous ones. I came across his article and found that it was very well written and put together much better then I would have written it. So why not share it with you guys? I see no problem with linking to other sources, as I've asked others to do the same.
And besides, why did you wait to say this to me and not anyone else in this thread who has done the same? They also seem to be in favor of linking to other sources as well, which again, there is nothing wrong with. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
nobody is saying it did. |
Ok, understood. I still rightfully disagree and believe the stimulus, expansion of government and ease of credit were much more destructive then the dollar being linked to gold. I mean, let's face it, the fact that we were on a gold standard didn't seem to stop the government from all of the "stimulus" that it created. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
And besides, why did you wait to say this to me and not anyone else in this thread who has done the same? They also seem to be in favor of linking to other sources as well, which again, there is nothing wrong with. |
I didn't "wait" to say it to anyone - but it's pretty hilarious that you immediately discredit Bernanke but cite the Vice President of the Cleveland Branch as a credible source. I'm not saying he's not - I'm saying that you pick and choose who to listen to based on whether you agree with them. That's a pretty heavy confirmation bias. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I didn't "wait" to say it to anyone - but it's pretty hilarious that you immediately discredit Bernanke but cite the Vice President of the Cleveland Branch as a credible source. I'm not saying he's not - I'm saying that you pick and choose who to listen to based on whether you agree with them. That's a pretty heavy confirmation bias. |
I have listened to many of Bernanke's public videos on youtube and have read some of his work. I don't find him to be doing a very good job in his current seat and I also notice he leaves out a lot of important information in his writings, as I pointed out a few posts ago. |
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