|
Kirk Cameron's back again! (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Anyway, what saddens me the most is the fact that evangelists keep attacking Darwin when he's not the responsible for the rise of current atheism. Even Freud played a much important role... |
Freud? How do you figure that?
The argument from design was one of the biggest guns in the religious arsenal. "Well, if a god didn't make everything, then how did all these amazing creatures get here?" Darwin provided a plausible explanation that did not invoke any divine beings at all, taking all the gas out of that argument. ;-) |
|
|
| Nrg2Nfinit |
| there was never any gas there to begin with. |
|
|
| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
there was never any gas there to begin with. |
Well, it used to be that nobody had any idea at all how organisms could have evolved and life could have diversified. Seems like it would make the whole "God did it" answer look more reasonable to them. |
|
|
| bas |
| I got through about 20 seconds before I wanted throw Kirk Cameron's mother down a flight of stairs. Do you see what you do Kirk? Do you see?! |
|
|
| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Well, it used to be that nobody had any idea at all how organisms could have evolved and life could have diversified. Seems like it would make the whole "God did it" answer look more reasonable to them. |
sure, this is a primitive idea that has been around for probably over 20,000 years. Are you insisting that our intelligence from way back then would be credible agaisnt modern day arguments? Who's to say that the Zoroastrian's faith is less credible then christian faith? The initial fuel would just be speculation and reason to comprehend the purpose of existence. Why do things happen? What is the motivation? The easiest parsimonious answer would be that someone or something is responsible (without any fact). So thus you have your religion. |
|
|
| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by bas
I got through about 20 seconds before I wanted throw Kirk Cameron's mother down a flight of stairs. Do you see what you do Kirk? Do you see?! |
:stongue: my blood started boiling at the part when he tried to use Darwin's (fake) racism to support his "dinosaurs and people walked the earth together 4000 years ago" world view. |
|
|
| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by bas
I got through about 20 seconds before I wanted throw Kirk Cameron's mother down a flight of stairs. Do you see what you do Kirk? Do you see?! |
Haram man.. ramadan just finished |
|
|
| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
:stongue: my blood started boiling at the part when he tried to use Darwin's (fake) racism to support his "dinosaurs and people walked the earth together 4000 years ago" world view. |
This is obviously true. Probably the only correct thing he said in the whole presentation. The fact is that dinosaurs are actually birds.. OH did you see what i did there? Its a play on semantics :) |
|
|
| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Freud? How do you figure that?
The argument from design was one of the biggest guns in the religious arsenal. "Well, if a god didn't make everything, then how did all these amazing creatures get here?" Darwin provided a plausible explanation that did not invoke any divine beings at all, taking all the gas out of that argument. ;-) |
Actually, you can still believe in evolution and in God (for example, Intelligent Designers claim God is behind evolution... and I heard this argument countless times here in Brazil, where science and religion are far from being on a war). If you hack the bible a bit, you can claim God created everything through processes, evolution being one of them.
Now, the real killers were German and French speaking intellectuals that actually made a very good job at it. Freud, Sartre, and Marx, for example, have played a much more important role in showing how a godless world is not only possible but more plausible.
Freud, for example, had nothing but contempt for religion (as far as I know him, feel free to show otherwise if I'm mistaken), claiming that the whole idea of God arose from our insecurities as humans, and that we're not masters of ours thoughts/consciousness. Marx, on another front, also managed to develop a whole godless world view that even had a Heaven without God (Russell makes a funny comparison in his History of Western Philosophy).
The French are also an interesting bunch, when it comes to atheism. |
|
|
| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Actually, you can still believe in evolution and in God (for example, Intelligent Designers claim God is behind evolution... and I heard this argument countless times here in Brazil, where science and religion are far from being on a war). If you hack the bible a bit, you can claim God created everything through processes, evolution being one of them. |
I did not say the two are mutually exclusive, I said that evolution takes out divine intervention as a necessary ingredient of the explanation. Sure, you can add God into the story like a cherry on top if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy, but there is no scientific reason to do so. The divine ingredient is decorative, it is no longer doing any explanatory work -- unless you are a creationist or IDer. |
|
|
| MrJiveBoJingles |
| Freud and Marx just made religion look silly, they did not try to cut at the root of the factual claims made by religions. That work was done by science, history, and archeology. |
|
|
| Nrg2Nfinit |
| you actually can't have natural selection go hand in hand with intelligent design. Intelligent design states that the pieces in the puzzle are already designed at a micro level thust divine intervention puts those pieces together. I always see intelligent design used as a method to try and refute evolution. An agnostic perspective is that god plays the role of the hand that put everything into motion. Thus we have the ingredients created and natural selection takes place from there. This is not to be confused with intelligent design (where the pieces are fabricated due to divine intervention.) |
|
|
|
|
