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So did you ever find the bible to be too...liberal? (pg. 3)
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Darkarbiter
Social spending is pretty left wing. |
The weird part I could never figure out is whether conservative extremists consider Military spending to be a form of social spending or not.. To me it seems it is. We all pay taxes to train an army to protect all of us from our common enemies. Why the less tangible enemies like disease or ignorance should be any different is another question.. |
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | | Nothing is Caesars? Your anarcho-capitalist colors shine brightly. |
Correct. Caesar is only entitled to what society agrees to pay in return for certain services (collective self defense, etc) He is entitled to nothing BY RIGHT. The first claim on all property belongs to those who earn it. Jesus was an idiot if he thought otherwise. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
The weird part I could never figure out is whether conservative extremists consider Military spending to be a form of social spending or not.. To me it seems it is. We all pay taxes to train an army to protect all of us from our common enemies. Why the less tangible enemies like disease or ignorance should be any different is another question.. |
Because they're paying for the freedom not to pay for other people's freedom, that's why! |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Correct. Caesar is only entitled to what society agrees to pay in return for certain services (collective self defense, etc) He is entitled to nothing BY RIGHT. The first claim on all property belongs to those who earn it. Jesus was an idiot if he thought otherwise. |
The whole give to Caesar thing was preceeded by Jesus asking who's face is on the coin. What he's saying is that anything made by man (as the coins were minted by Rome and Caesar was Rome) belongs to man but those things made by God belong to God... it has nothing to do with any policy position on taxes. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| The Karl Marx revised edition of the Holy Bible is the one, true word, as re-interpreted by His most significant prophet. Catholics are clearly just behind as usual! :o |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
In fact, I think you'd find the communists would confiscate that "everything" and then ensure that death quickly followed.
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Which is EXACTLY what Obama is doing, amirite?
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Very different scenarios. |
Oh, or that. |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
He said, "Give to Caesar's what is Caesar's." Whatever you give to the government might as well be used to raise the standard of living for the tax payers. |
Which is hardly an idea locked in "liberal" ideology. Both conservative AND liberal governments tax the citizenry and spend it in ways that they hope or believe will raise the standard of living for the tax-payers. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Which is hardly an idea locked in "liberal" ideology. Both conservative AND liberal governments tax the citizenry and spend it in ways that they hope or believe will raise the standard of living for the tax-payers. |
By your logic, taxation is forcible wealth distribution from rich to poor. As I'v already said, Jesus's 'sell everything and give to the poor' quote, is sooooo socialist and should be edited to, "Give only enough to shut those anti-capitalist liberals up so they can't say you'r a greedy bastard." |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
By your logic, taxation is forcible wealth distribution from rich to poor. As I'v already said, Jesus's 'sell everything and give to the poor' quote, is sooooo socialist and should be edited to, "Give only enough to shut those anti-capitalist liberals up so they can't say you'r a greedy bastard." |
Taxation, and what's done with our taxes, is a separate issue from "give all of your belongings to the poor" (and are also two separate examples, found in two separate passages of the Bible, you're trying to combine the two quotes to mean something they do not). In one case (Give all of your belongings away), you are freely, and willingly, giving your stuff away to those in need (stuff, by the way, that belongs to YOU, not "Ceasar", as taxes do), while in the other (taxes) you are forced to pay an amount of money, and have no say in how it's spent. In one case, a man is asking how to get to heaven, which, according to the passage, requires a WILLFUL giving away of your excesses to the needy. In the second example, the Pharasies are simply asking Jesus whether or not a man should pay his taxes, to which Jesus replies "Yes, because Ceasar created that money, so pay him what he is owed from it."
You used the example of "give your belongings to the poor" as a possible passage that may be found to be "too liberal". Which is nonsense, because a Liberal says "You won't give that money away, so we're going to take it and give it away for you.", while Jesus says "To get into heaven, you must WILLINGLY give your belongings away to the needy", which are two VERY different messages (In fact, the command to GIVE your things, rather than having them TAKEN away, lines up much more neatly with conservative ideology, that says that lowered taxes allows the citizen to CHOOSE how their money is spent).
You used "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" as a possible example of a passage that is "too Liberal", which is also nonsense, since both Liberal AND Conservative governments charge taxes that we must pay. Simply telling us to pay our taxes is hardly a Liberal idea, so why would it be considered for editing by a bunch of right-wing nutbars? |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Taxation, and what's done with our taxes, is a separate issue from "give all of your belongings to the poor" (and are also two separate examples, found in two separate passages of the Bible, you're trying to combine the two quotes to mean something they do not). In one case (Give all of your belongings away), you are freely, and willingly, giving your stuff away to those in need (stuff, by the way, that belongs to YOU, not "Ceasar", as taxes do), while in the other (taxes) you are forced to pay an amount of money, and have no say in how it's spent. In one case, a man is asking how to get to heaven, which, according to the passage, requires a WILLFUL giving away of your excesses to the needy. In the second example, the Pharasies are simply asking Jesus whether or not a man should pay his taxes, to which Jesus replies "Yes, because Ceasar created that money, so pay him what he is owed from it."
You used the example of "give your belongings to the poor" as a possible passage that may be found to be "too liberal". Which is nonsense, because a Liberal says "You won't give that money away, so we're going to take it and give it away for you.", while Jesus says "To get into heaven, you must WILLINGLY give your belongings away to the needy", which are two VERY different messages (In fact, the command to GIVE your things, rather than having them TAKEN away, lines up much more neatly with conservative ideology, that says that lowered taxes allows the citizen to CHOOSE how their money is spent).
You used "Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's" as a possible example of a passage that is "too Liberal", which is also nonsense, since both Liberal AND Conservative governments charge taxes that we must pay. Simply telling us to pay our taxes is hardly a Liberal idea, so why would it be considered for editing by a bunch of right-wing nutbars? |
Is it so much of a choice when the alternative is to go to hell? Hmmm one might think it's easier to simply leave the country if you don't like paying its taxes. That is an option you know. Apparentely there's no alternative for the hell bit ... not much of a "choice". |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
The Karl Marx revised edition of the Holy Bible is the one, true word, as re-interpreted by His most significant prophet. Catholics are clearly just behind as usual! :o |
Ever read Russell's History of Western Philosophy? His biblical analogy of Marx is spot on :) |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by occrider
Is it so much of a choice when the alternative is to go to hell? Hmmm one might think it's easier to simply leave the country if you don't like paying its taxes. That is an option you know. Apparentely there's no alternative for the hell bit ... not much of a "choice". |
Yes, because there's no guarantee that Hell actually exists. What we KNOW is that we're alive right now, and we have power over the choices we make during this life. Whether or not a person believes in Hell is a choice they also have to make. |
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