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is a sub necessary for accurate mixing (pg. 2)
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
As said, unleess you're mixing in a format with a discreet LFE channel, then a sub is not a good idea. Most music stereo, listened to on Stereo systems, not 2.1. |
I'm not sure that this is true anymore, aside from headphone listening which is an entirely different ball game. To be honest, I have yet to meet anyone in the past 3 years who didn't have at least a 2.1 system with their PC, and a 2.1 or even 5.1 or 6.1 system in the living room or wherever the main stereo is. And I'm not necessarily talking about "audiophiles" here, just regular folks. They are often extremely cheap subs, to be fair, often passive subs, but subs nonetheless.
I'm going to agree with the main premise of mixing with good studio monitors and nothing else (if you can afford it), but if you don't have the years of experience to be able to predict exactly how the mix will translate to different systems, then you should also be checking your mix on both headphones and a decent 2.1. |
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| Kismet7 |
| Definately. A sub will help you develop better sounding basslines, that mesh well with kicks. Most important thing is to know how to reference the sub, just having one wont help, gotta learn its personality well. |
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| SDM |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I have yet to meet anyone in the past 3 years who didn't have at least a 2.1 system with their PC, and a 2.1 or even 5.1 or 6.1 system in the living room or wherever the main stereo is. And I'm not necessarily talking about "audiophiles" here, just regular folks. |
havent really thought about it that way before but its very true. |
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| Mr.Mystery |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I'm not sure that this is true anymore, aside from headphone listening which is an entirely different ball game. To be honest, I have yet to meet anyone in the past 3 years who didn't have at least a 2.1 system with their PC, and a 2.1 or even 5.1 or 6.1 system in the living room or wherever the main stereo is. And I'm not necessarily talking about "audiophiles" here, just regular folks. They are often extremely cheap subs, to be fair, often passive subs, but subs nonetheless.
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Hi. |
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| derail |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Hi. |
Yeah, I'm going to have to say "hi" as well... my internet computer does have a sub, but my stereo/ TV setup doesn't (it's just two speakers) and my production computer doesn't have a sub.
So it's kind of a semi-"hi". I'm not sure if the sub on my internet computer is turned on...it's probably set as quiet as it will go. |
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| Nightshift |
| do whatever works for you and gets you the best results. i personally use a sub and love it. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
Yeah, I'm going to have to say "hi" as well... my internet computer does have a sub, but my stereo/ TV setup doesn't (it's just two speakers) and my production computer doesn't have a sub. |
This is all well and good, but we're talking about the 99.9% of the population that doesn't produce, i.e. your target audience. Producers as a group are obviously going to be more likely to have pricey studio monitors with good bass response. And you've actually come right out and said that your "internet computer" - which is equivalent to most people's only computer - has a sub.
I'm always saying the same thing to developers about software: don't make the mistake of assuming that the people you are developing (producing) for are anything like you. If they were, they'd be doing what you're doing. |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
Definately. A sub will help you develop better sounding basslines, that mesh well with kicks. |
i would argue in most cases subs degrade the quality of the monitoring. most people who understand acoustics and speaker design would agree (see earlier post). subs can be useful for checking your mix, but i wouldn't mix on one.
i also want to clarify diginuts argument before someone gets the wrong idea...
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I'm going to agree with the main premise of mixing with good studio monitors and nothing else (if you can afford it), but if you don't have the years of experience to be able to predict exactly how the mix will translate to different systems, then you should also be checking your mix on both headphones and a decent 2.1. |
he's not saying you should MIX on a 2.1 system because that is what most people use at home, he is just saying you should CHECK your mix on a 2.1 system. for various reasons (stated on previous page), buying better monitors is a far better idea than buying a sub. |
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| Kthought |
| Also, I love having the energy of a sub when writing, basslines, drumlines, turning it pretty loud and feeling the music, no technical use, just feeling the beat and being inspired by big sound :thepirate |
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| Nightshift |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kthought
Also, I love having the energy of a sub when writing, basslines, drumlines, turning it pretty loud and feeling the music, no technical use, just feeling the beat and being inspired by big sound :thepirate |
this. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kthought
Also, I love having the energy of a sub when writing, basslines, drumlines, turning it pretty loud and feeling the music, no technical use, just feeling the beat and being inspired by big sound :thepirate |
+uno.
When the track is near done, or has hit its first moments of "this is carving out nice", indeed a fun time with a sub on deck to relish the moment. |
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| DJ RANN |
I'm going to say too. Also, on behalf of my parents (two hifi systems, no sub) and about 50% of my friends who do NOT have subs with their bog standard hifi's and computers, and they're certainly not audiophiles, let alone producers.
It's a misnoma to think becuase people are listening on systems which are 2.1 (which is techinally incorrect anyway becuase the .1 denotes a separate discreet channel in all other formats apart from stereo with a sub crossover), that you should think about that when mixing in stereo.
As there is no standard for 2.1 systems, all the crossovers are different depending on brand/model/wind direction so trying to anticipate that and include it in your mix is pissing in to the wind. Absolute waste of time.
Fine. check on a 2.1 in case it sounds like , but for me, nearly every 2.1 system sounds like so I won't ever use it as a reference.
Mix it well, and mix it in stereo. If you do that right, then it should sound good on all stereo systems, regardless or not if the manufacturer decided to add a sub, as their system has to do the translation of you stereo signal, not the other way round.
Now if you want to use a sub as part fo the creative process (to put you in the club mood or something lame) then that's fine but don't confuse that with needing it for mixing. If you find you mix better with a sub becuase it inspires you then more power, but don't mislead yourself in to believing it's more accurate than a good pair of monitor speakers.
Echo and ericJ were spot on in the first page of this thread.
I've yet to meet a mix engineer that uses a sub for stereo music. |
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