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Can someone explain this to me? (pg. 5)
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| RichieV |
| do you understand how a compressor calculates the amplitude of a signal ? If you can't answer that question from a mathematical standpoint, you won't understand how a digital compressor actually decides when it is loud enough. It isn't as simple as being at a threshold. |
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| Kismet7 |
| I've already explained the practical use of a compressor, and how 2 signals and compressor would react to eachother, you failed to. Now you are bringing in mathetmatics standpoint, when your practical knowledge of the topic is nonexistent, nor did you attempt to explain in full what the OP was looking for an answer to. Being the seasoned troll that you are, you agreed with someone who gave a insufficient response instead. |
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| RichieV |
lol
jesus christ , how do you think they design compressors ? Math ? Seems pretty practical. It is you that is delusional applying perfect models you don't understand that further more don't exist in the real world.If you can't understand how a compressor calculates amplitude, you won't understand anything I say.
Do you ever wonder why you seem to be be sitting by yourself on so many topics ? |
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| Kismet7 |
::sigh::
Just go make some good music already. Thats what I do even though I post here, just in the past month already got my next demo made. And a remix thats headed to either a seperate remix package...or even better might make it to a quality Label's Essential Compilation CD, amongst other talented producers musics. I use my knowledge practically, do you? |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
the time would only matters for the onset of the compressor. The transients would matter if a compressor could act fast enough to actually catch the fast attack transient of the high freq but they can't so the point is moot. A compressor averages amplitudes and the operation doesn't happen instantly. You are wrong. |
Just to get this thread slightly back on track. Richie, I'm curious as to what you're talking about here. If the compressor analyses the amplitude of successive samples, is it in peak mode or RMS mode? Also, how many samples does it analyse? Is the attack setting actually controlling how many samples have to be over the threshhold before it kicks in?
I'm pretty sure I understand this stuff, but just for clarification... |
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| RichieV |
| both modes. There really is no such thing as an instant compressor. As far as how many , it depends on the latency and other parameters determined by the algorithm. The attack is based on the threshold state which is determined by whether a given window of samples satisfies the condition. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
both modes. There really is no such thing as an instant compressor. As far as how many , it depends on the latency and other parameters determined by the algorithm. The attack is based on the threshold state which is determined by whether a given window of samples satisfies the condition. |
I see... So what does the attack knob actually control then? How about the peak/RMS setting?:conf: |
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| RichieV |
made to emulate hardware units. It is an optical illusion. The difference between the 2 is the sample window or the latency or both. No compressor looks at just 1 value. Same with the 1 ms display. You can't hear 1 ms and it is most likely just an approximation to make it look more ergonomic.
There are a few compressors that would make the transients an issue but they are uncommon and as much as the issue might pose for the properties of the compressor, they just don't matter when it comes to our ears. Transients can affect a compressor but it is irrelevant in a very large majority of cases and Kismet is arguing the point without knowing any of the reasons why. He is confusing people without sharing any light on the matter. |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
If 2 signals are hitting the same compressor, they are not impacting the compressor the same way at all, even if their amplitudes are the same in volume. One might be hitting it at its highest amplitude while the other might be coming off the end of its transient, so the two sounds likely see different amounts of compression at any given point. And then there is the sounds envelope, which affects the compression as well, which i'm the only one to address. |
I'm sorry but we're talking about two different things here and I don't know how you keep coming back to this. The impact on the sound a compressor has is a different story then what I've said. I said: if you combine 2 signals and make it 1, the compressor will compress all sounds equally. If the compressor is triggered by sound #1 it will compress #2 equally which is inevitable as it's one signal. It doesn't compress other frequency ranges any less than others. Yet that is exactly what you are implying. Ironically you would be right, if we would be talking about multiband compression.
I don't know how you keep coming back on the transients and everything because that wasn't a factor in the initial question at all. Of course transients change a compressor's response and of course it will have it's influence. You neglect the fact that it wasn't part of the question. |
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| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
I'm sorry but we're talking about two different things here and I don't know how you keep coming back to this. The impact on the sound a compressor has is a different story then what I've said. I said: if you combine 2 signals and make it 1, the compressor will compress all sounds equally. If the compressor is triggered by sound #1 it will compress #2 equally which is inevitable as it's one signal. It doesn't compress other frequency ranges any less than others. Yet that is exactly what you are implying. Ironically you would be right, if we would be talking about multiband compression.
I don't know how you keep coming back on the transients and everything because that wasn't a factor in the initial question at all. Of course transients change a compressor's response and of course it will have it's influence. You neglect the fact that it wasn't part of the question. |
Read the question a few times. And then study how bus compression will react to two different signals.
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Is the signal on the master now like a glass of water, half full with the very low frequencies and half full with the mid frequencies or does it not fill up at all? And which signal will make the limiter compress them first if both are sent at the same time or does it not matter?
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The compressor might compress equal dynamics equally once a ratio attack and threshold are set, that is a given. But the whole topic was about which of the two different sounds would affect the compressor most/least, and what would be compressed the most when it comes to a master bus compression. You guys are ignoring the actual topic because you cant comprehend the question being asked and cant give a practical answer to it. Just move on, and work on some music instead, try to get somewhere. |
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| Storyteller |
Rofl. After this I give up. It's sad really.
A compressor does the same thing on a single channel as it does on a bus/combined channels. For crying out loud a lot of people even use the same plugins for both. How could bus compression even be different? Yes the signal is different thus the compressor would react differently but it's still a compressor and it still just responds to amplitude that crosses the threshold and it would still attenuate the entire signal in the same way as it does with the peaking signal. No exceptions.
Bus compression in fact is not that much different from compressing a single instrument other than the fact that one would prefer to keep dynamics and transients intact. This can easily be done by keeping the attack time fairly high (slow attack), ratio low and release times high as well which will help glue things together without crushing it. |
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| Kismet7 |
Yah...basically the idea and the question the person is asking is completely over your heads, as is bus compression.
If we are to go by your ignorance about bus compression, we would be bussing pads and snares together without care. Instead of Snares and Kicks, since you dont care about the transient or the envelopes of sounds, and think its only about the amplitude of sounds. Let it go, and read up on that link, and then practice practice practice. |
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