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Hijacked a thread and want a larger opinion on the virtual machine topic for DAWs (pg. 3)
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View this Thread in Original format
| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Just want to get an idea if you think my desktop is capable. I built it myself, 500gb HD, Core2DuoE7400 2.8ghz, 4GB RAM, Asus Mobo, Windows XP, can give you more specs if you need. |
If you're running Windows XP, you won't even have access to all 4 GB of RAM. I certainly wouldn't run VMWare or any other virtualization software on XP and especially not a home machine.
Is it capable? Yeah, I guess. Will it accomplish anything useful? Unless you actually expect to get a bunch of worms, then that's a definitive no.
| quote: | Originally posted by Aesthetic
PS. Looking at it the other way, you could use your Host OS to run your DAW and music , and your Guest OS to run all the other internet crap.. that could work I suppose |
I'm almost positive that this was the suggestion. Pointless exercise, but it'll work. |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
VMWare is practically transparent, performance-wise, assuming you've actually got virtualization-capable hardware.
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Superficial FPU and I/O benchmarks will show near-complete transparency. However, there are still SOME binary translations and so forth done in software, even with VT/AMD-V. These won't come up in such benchmarks and are what slows VMs down. I read a really good article on this once, but for the life of me I can't find it. I'll keep looking. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
Ok I actually just had my brother read some of this thread and I'm absolutely sure now whats going on.
He laughed at a lot of the responses saying most of you are confused as to what VMware actually does. Or are assuming that I'm using the version 3 version. Its the free 1.7 version, a service.
I didn't realize he has taught a ton of courses just on VMware, and he made a good point that anyone trying to give me advice can't, unless they even know what I'm using in the first place, basically telling me this whole thread was a waste of my time and his lol.
But as to what diginut said he said you're confused.
Having XP running vs XP running with an unbooted VM uses the same exact amount of RAM as before. So hes not sure what you are talking about. |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Ok I actually just had my brother read some of this thread and I'm absolutely sure now whats going on.
He laughed at a lot of the responses saying most of you are confused as to what VMware actually does. Or are assuming that I'm using the version 3 version. Its the free 1.7 version, a service.
I didn't realize he has taught a ton of courses just on VMware, and he made a good point that anyone trying to give me advice can't, unless they even know what I'm using in the first place, basically telling me this whole thread was a waste of my time and his lol.
But as to what diginut said he said you're confused.
Having XP running vs XP running with an unbooted VM uses the same exact amount of RAM as before. So hes not sure what you are talking about. |
DJ Robby Rox, I can't vouch for what other people have said, but here's why you shouldn't use VMWare:
You will no longer have ASIO direct to your soundcard, so audio performance will suck hard. ASIO bypasses a lot of unnecessary layers of abstraction that the Windows sound driver model has and this is how it reduces audio latency (thus increasing performance). With VMWare, you will be running audio through the normal Windows stack at two levels - the guest AND the host. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
But as to what diginut said he said you're confused.
Having XP running vs XP running with an unbooted VM uses the same exact amount of RAM as before. |
Apparently your brother doesn't know how to read. I said you don't have access to all of that memory because you're still using Windows XP, not because you have an inactive VM. You need a 64-bit OS to address that much memory (or PAE, but... just don't).
And when you're already whittled down to 3 GB of memory, you're going to reserve what... 1 gig, for when the VM is running? 2 gigs? Flipping that VM on and off again is going to totally kill your cache and pagefile. And it's a waste - you'd be doing it all for nothing. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
Ok I think its fair enough to say this topic has been raped to death.
Digi we obviously misread what you wrote. Thanks everyone who tried to help.
Its hard to have someone in person who can explain it real clearly, and who seems more then qualified, then a forum where communication really is limited.
With everything else aside the VMware is hooked up. I've been using it for a couple hours now and so far I love it. My computer is so much faster from the format alone, even with Vmware open, and a few windows open on the VM, not even 1% CPU is being used.
Right now its shutdown, and ASIO seems to work fine. I'm not sure about latency because all the latency seems exactly the same as before, haven't noticed a difference yet.
I'll be just kinda testing it for the next week or so, but right now it def seems it will be doing much more harm then good, at least for my situation.
And DIGI yes, all I allocated to the VM was 1GB of ram, I don't even need that much honestly for what I'll be doing.
With the VM unbooted (even booted too), everything is wikid fast and working great.
So so far at least I'm veryhappy with it.
Thanks everyone who tried to help, I'm gonna go play some more now.. |
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| Aesthetic |
Sorry Diginut but I think he meant running fl studio within a VM as well? Unless I was confused by this post
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
I hijacked a thread with this and was wondering what the deal is with VMs? Virtual machines?
If you don't know what VMs are the idea is if you want to keep your sequencer computer free from online access to maintain its speed (and not download or install a lot of programs on it) but DON'T want to buy a new computer, you install 2 or 3 VMs on 1 computer, use one for music and one for internet/video etc. I was told if you just boot one VM it will run at full CPU speed, but the advantage is no exposure to virus's/spyware, the only VM thats slows down is the one you allow to expose. When it slows down rather then doing a reformat you delete the VM and open up another.
This was the more specific comment in the other thread, feel free to read it or just skip and respond if you know enough about VMs. Thanks!
I just want to make a correction on a previous statement.
I relayed what you said back to my brother (the computer engineer who recommended using VMs) and he drew out a diagram to explain how they work.
He also showed me the 6 VMs on his computer, and the windows tasks bar to prove how CPU usage is divided.
He said the only things VMs (virtual machines) share is harddrive space, however much you allot to each machine. If I allot 40gigs to one VM, the other VM can't touch it. However, RAM and CPU power is only used as a sum total between what programs simultaneously run on each VM.
If I have FL running on one VM, and FL running on another VM, then CPU usage is spit depending by what is running on each VM and added.
That means it should NOT be any slower at all UNLESS you are running other programs at that same time. Which should go w/out saying. But if that is not the scenario, you get the same amount of CPU power by only booting 1 VM.
Now the *benefit* to having a VM.
If you surf the internet a lot, or download random crap from random places you are exposed to a lot of .
That will slow down you computer over time.
When you have a VM (for people who can't afford 2 seperate computers) if one slows down over time from spyware/installing/uninstalling a VM that is used just for music production will NOT. You can simply delete the VM, and reboot a 3rd that you built but never used.
It would keep the VM that you use running at optimum speed as long as you never go online (which is what I'll be doing). So I had him install 3 VMs on my one pc. One I will use for internet one for just music production, then a 3rd I never boot till the internet one gets raped with spyware/virus's.
I've owned everycopy of the most popular AV programs and can NEVER stop my internet pc from slowing down. So this will be a least interesting to try.
If not he can just delete both VM not a big deal. But I'll let you know how it goes. Also I've never seen this topic on this forum before.
>> end comment |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Ok I think its fair enough to say this topic has been raped to death.
Digi we obviously misread what you wrote. Thanks everyone who tried to help.
Its hard to have someone in person who can explain it real clearly, and who seems more then qualified, then a forum where communication really is limited.
With everything else aside the VMware is hooked up. I've been using it for a couple hours now and so far I love it. My computer is so much faster from the format alone, even with Vmware open, and a few windows open on the VM, not even 1% CPU is being used.
Right now its shutdown, and ASIO seems to work fine. I'm not sure about latency because all the latency seems exactly the same as before, haven't noticed a difference yet.
I'll be just kinda testing it for the next week or so, but right now it def seems it will be doing much more harm then good, at least for my situation.
And DIGI yes, all I allocated to the VM was 1GB of ram, I don't even need that much honestly for what I'll be doing.
With the VM unbooted (even booted too), everything is wikid fast and working great.
So so far at least I'm veryhappy with it.
Thanks everyone who tried to help, I'm gonna go play some more now.. |
I want to know what happens when you run a bunch of tracks and start putting that ASIO driver to the test. I've got a feeling you're going to see performance issues.
TBH, I don't understand all this messing about trying to keep your one system for dual purpose, especially with a PC - you can pick up a second hand PC for less than $100 and use a $20 monitor switch - you'll never have to worry about your audio PC ever again. |
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| echosystm |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I want to know what happens when you run a bunch of tracks and start putting that ASIO driver to the test. I've got a feeling you're going to see performance issues.
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Unless he has a USB audio interface linking straight into the VM, he wouldn't be able to use real ASIO - he would have to run ASIO4ALL in the VM, which obviously hooks into the Windows driver stack on the host. It goes without saying that this will perform like in comparison to native. A USB interface running directly in the VM could be OK. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I want to know what happens when you run a bunch of tracks and start putting that ASIO driver to the test. I've got a feeling you're going to see performance issues.
TBH, I don't understand all this messing about trying to keep your one system for dual purpose, especially with a PC - you can pick up a second hand PC for less than $100 and use a $20 monitor switch - you'll never have to worry about your audio PC ever again. |
Actually when I asked my brother that was the first thing he recommended me to do. And I still may depending on how this current setup works out.
Its hard to tell honestly what kind of performance hit I'm taking because I have nothing to compare it too.
My computers prior state was terrible and I was maxing out my cpu having just 6-8 vsts open (usually z3ta, sylenth or albino I use) and that was on a core2e7400 which is suppose to be pretty fast for the core2's.
I do remember when I first got it a little over a year ago I could easily have 20-25 vsts open before my CPU maxed out. I *think though.
I can check rougly based on that estimate but I haven't installed any of my vsts back in yet. So when I do, I'll see how much it can take.
Its still going to be hard to compare because no matter how many times you format a pc overtime its still going to slow down. So it'll be hard to tell whether the age is causing it or the VMs. The pc itself was built 3 years ago, the processor was updated about 14 months ago I think. When I get everything running I will def have to check. |
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