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forcing sounds in the mix
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| msz |
since i really suck, i usually tend to force into my mix, can you pros give some tips on how to manipulate frequencies better. techniques would be helpful, other than eq, filtering. I guess start with better source frequencies planned out right? maybe im deluded by the pro tracks im listening to that are really loud.
do those same people mix their track really low db first?
sorry if this thread confuses you... |
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| DJ_Eternal |
Yep, I think I understand what you're getting at.
I guess it's never a bad thing to have an idea beforehand on what you think you may need and what you think the most dominant elements of track may be and focus on building that into the mix with the percs, bass first, and anything else that may occupy roughly the same frequency range (upper range pads, FX etc) around that if you feel the track needs buffing up a little.
I tend to find that more is less when it comes to EQ'ing and cut more than I boost, dependent on the sample/sounds used. About a year ago, I used to boost certain frequencies between 3-18db's, but I've found recently that if you need to boost anything by more than 5-6 dbs, then more often than not, the sample just won't fit and will sound out of place when solo'd.
I'll normally ensure the kick and bass are peaking at -7db on the master, and work from there. Even after using Reason's default mastering set-up after I've finished some mixing work, and rendering the track to a .wav, it's normally roughly around the same level as pro's tracks when comparing.
:) |
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| Beatflux |
| One thing I did to get a better idea of how frequencies are organized in a pro track is to break up the song into 4 frequency zones: Below 200Hz, 200-1000, 1000-6000, 6000-20000 and listen to each zone using a steep high/low pass filter. That way it's a lot easier to figure out what's going on in those specific bands, and it really makes pinpointing action in the bass easier to hear. |
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| Prototrance |
Obviously eq'ing sounds well is essential, but sometimes I find that it's a simple volume adjustment that is needed and not more eq'ing to get the sound to sit just right.
Other things I've used to separate sounds in the mix:
Filters - typically i'll have several percussion channels in LPF or HPF, sometime BPF so they sit better with the rest of the percs'.
Panning - helps space the mix out. Don't do this with bass or drums though - these need to be dead centre.
Compression - Helps make sounds clearer in the mix for me, brings delays out especially which can make the sound more developed in the mix.
Careful selection of sounds - Using sounds that are similar for different riffs will obviously be more difficult to separate in the mix.
EDIT - And I'm not a pro! This is just personal experience |
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| msz |
| sounds about right proto, any pros have anything else to chime in that hasnt been covered please do so. |
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| evo8 |
wish i was a pro but also try transposing things up a few semitones, or an octave
for example some sort of drum hit might be colliding with the low end and get masked - pitch it up and it might find some free space in the mix
same with arps or leads or anything - doesnt hurt to try :) |
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| msz |
| thats some basic stuff i always do(octaves). but, someone might come in here and learn something so, good stuff. if people don't know, octaves associate with frequencies. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
Automations/LFOs/Envelopes!
I found automations/lfos & env are the heart of essential dynamics in any mix.
Thats the word I focus on a lot anytime I try to 'force' in new elements. DYNAMICS. How is this going to change the overall dynamic? Will this add or take away?
But an example of what I mean by dynamics.
I have a full mix in front of me and its missing a clap. For some reason no matter what clap I put in the mix, it STANDS OUT, and I can't figure out why any clap I put in the mix sticks out like it doesn't belong.
I'd think about it and it always came down to dynamics. Either the mix is too dynamic for the clap, or the clap is too dynamic for the mix. (my definition of dynamics is how things change over time).
I found adding a hipass env over the clap was the secret. The clap hits thin initially, then quickly sweeps in lower frequencies AFTER the beat hits. So theres less frequencies when more is happening, and more frequencies when less is happening. The dynamic thus equalizes itself and almost any clap fits now.
But its always dynamics.
If my bass can't fit, I draw a 4 beat low frequency automation. When the kick hits, the sub of the bass are always being cut out. You won't always find sidechaining on my kick/bass, but there is ALWAYS this low frequency cut automation. You can barely tell its there, but it clears room for the kick perfect.
A whole mix is essentially adding an element, but clearing room for it to sit in the mix.
Sometimes a bassline sounds "strong" with low frequencies, sometimes it actually sounds "stronger" when you take those frequencies out, and automate a band pass so there is spikes and waves that flow with the beat.
I notice pros doing this all the time.
Automations add dynamics, dynamics make sounds move more, so it will always sound like more when less is actually happening.
But in terms of 'forcing' sounds or really just making sounds sit well together, I focus on automations/lfos and envs. Automations to equalizers, filter automations, lfos to bassline (usually frequency, but sometimes decay and fm) env on DRUMS. Put an env over your mid hat, even try a pitch env on an open hat, you can completely change the dynamic of the sound. Put low pass envelopes on closed hats so the click part sounds brighter.
Put bandpass on claps and pitch env on claps so they sweep when they hit and drive the track forward.
Have specific 4 beat automations like low frequency sweeps on the bass just so space is always being made when the kick hits.
There is various other ways to clear room for elements besides the kick bass line. Be creative and you will see theres a hundred more ways you can change dynamics to make a track drive or sound more "together", but essentially I do believe it comes down to little details like this.
If you think about it, lfos/env/automations literally ARE your "chisels" as a sound producer. When things don't fit in real life you chisel that so it does, shape it and mold it till it works properly in the final product. Same applies for sound, rather then just trash a sound, look at the dynamics its competing with, and carve that sound so it adds to the dynamic rather then take away. Sounds can be 'forced' into a mix but I think the better word idea is 'manipulating' a sound to fit, rather then forcing it (which brings in the idea of using compressors or limiters to boost the sound imo). And usually thats not really the answer. |
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| Zombie0729 |
| ummm... pick better sounds that work together... /end thread |
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| parafrNalia |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
ummm... pick better sounds that work together... /end thread |
It's not that simple from a creative standpoint. I think msz is a pretty creative guy, and sometimes with creativity comes the need to make sounds that shouldn't work together do just that. |
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| MegaMan |
manipulate frequencies for which purpose?
to mind you, the reason why "pro" tracks sound really loud is due to a good mix and mastering.
you have to accept the fact that you cant focus on the overall quality of your track until its more or less completed production wise.
Then during the stage of mixing, based on metering that you hopefully have on your master output, tuning dynamics up or down according the the spectrum. This is where you might wanna consider replacing some of your drum shots and samples if conventional equing is not effective.
only after you have a potential track, you usually lower master output to -3 to -5DB to give a mastering engineer some headroom.
could you please be more specific next time, the concepts you've mentioned are very broad. |
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