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is it worth spending 2700 for a mac when your just starting out? (pg. 3)
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| Aesthetic |
| Didn't you hear Diginut? Mac's "just work".. :rolleyes: |
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| RichieV |
| I just haven't met anyone that had no knowledge of computers and had a functioning PC. My parents, my friends , my girfriends parents and friends. Every single person I have ever met that doesn't have OS knowledge has a broken PC after 2 months. And opening up the control panel is not as simple as you think to most. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
I just haven't met anyone that had no knowledge of computers and had a functioning PC. My parents, my friends , my girfriends parents and friends. Every single person I have ever met that doesn't have OS knowledge has a broken PC after 2 months. And opening up the control panel is not as simple as you think to most. |
Yes, I hear this often enough, mostly stories about people who still own computers from the pre-XP era or managed to pooch their XP PC once or twice and never bothered doing anything to fix it. These are historical curiosities now, though.
Usually the only times I hear about malware infestations these days is either when somebody was running an unpatched PC from god knows how many years ago or (more commonly) lets their 12-year-old kid on the machine to download LimeWire and search for gamez and porn.
I don't think I've ever seen a non-functional Vista PC, and Vista's been around for a good 4 years now.
I think many of today's Mac evangelists switched to the Mac platform several years ago when Windows really sucked and Macs sucked slightly less; over time Macs got better but those same people still have memories of ancient Windows configurations and don't realize that Windows has also improved by leaps and bounds. Just my observation, anyway. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
But it doesn't take any knowledge. I think I've opened up the control panel here maybe twice, once to set up a second monitor and once to uninstall some program (maybe more than once for that). I hate hardware/OS issues as much as anyone, I don't even bother trying to solve them at work anymore, I just send them off to the sysadmin.
As far as malware goes, I don't think I've ever seen that on a Vista machine, and the primary reason you see it so infrequently (if ever) on a Mac is not because it's more secure or user-friendly but simply because malware authors don't bother targeting the platform.
And Win7 especially, I think it's in the "so easy a caveman could do it" department.
But like I said to DJ RANN... give me an example to the contrary. What knowledge does one need to have in order to keep a Windows PC running that isn't also required to keep a Mac running? |
I agree with you. I would say I'm an advanced PC user since I was young and yet I barely ever do anything to my OS, which is XP SP3 by the way. Occasional defrag and period virus/malware scans. That's pretty much it.
Not to mention that Win7 these days is bloody superb and has been rated as more secure than the Mac OS anyway.
The argument that Win is too much hassle is an argument from years ago. Get over it. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I want to preface this with the fact I've been a PC owner since I was 7 (and thats two decades ago), including building Audio specific PC's for major UK Pro audio retailer.
I think the difference is very little (depending on territory) in terem sof quality when assessed properly.
For instance (and this has been done so many times before on here), an entry level imac.
Now go buy the same processor, same (high quality) ram, superb motherboard (because the imacs are nearly flawless in terms of build quality), ultra quiet PSU, good graphics card, and an incredible quality screen (i have yet to see a screen under $500 that matches the imac, not to mention the new LED imacs).
I guarantee you that you will end up to the same money, if not more, than the imac, but it won't be in a nicely designed format, with a tiny footprint. And you won;t have OSX or Logic.
My point is PC's are great if you want to custom build and be very careful about what you do with it, but the $1200 I spent on my imac is one of the best purchases I've ever made.
the mac pro's offer slightly less $$ to performance but when you are that level you are getting in to diminishing returns anyway (i.e. adding $500 to a budget of $500 for a PC will give you a huge difference but adding $500 to a $3000 mac pro might be a different video card). The mac pro's are better built than any consumer PC I have ever seen. open one up - they are honestly an genius peice of engineering.
Don't get me wrong, I still love PC's, it's just that for my uses (music/enigneering) macs are so much less hassle and work so well while being cost effective for the components and platform you receive. |
I think if the prices are the same then macs are great, but like I said, in the case of laptops, macs have priced themselves out of the market IMO, and the specs are just too low.
Good info on the asus stuff anyway, thanks mate;)
PS whoever said that server class computers weren't worth it for audio, you have another thing coming. Those processors will hold up far better after a year of running 8 hours a day than will the i7 range. I wouldn't bother buying a desktop without a server class motherboard and a xeon. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I'm still mystified when people say this. I spend precisely 0 minutes per week on machine/OS maintenance (well, except when a chassis fan burns out, but fans do that). Even back in the Windows XP days it wasn't really that burdensome. Exactly what maintenance tasks did your iMac free you from?
(P.S. Sorry if that came off as confrontational - I'm genuinely curious as to the answer; it's something I've always scoffed at in the past and never really thought to actually ask). |
really Chassis fans do that? I've yet to see any one of the 15 various age macs at the studio do that or in fact meet someone who has had that happen to their mac.
As for maintenance, here you go:
!, Defragmentation. I have never had to do this to my mac but was at least a once a month occurance to keep my XP machine from slowing down.
2, Diskcleanup. Same as above.
3, Service pack and security updates. (which although necessary with mac, are far less often). Not to mention the fact that when they do a service pack half your third party hardware freaks out and the usual scramble ensues online for fixes or driver updates.
4, Installation of anti spyware and antivirus software
5, Daily updates of above program databases and definitions.
I could go on - This is just the basic stuff so you get my point. You can argue all you want but I literally did not have to think about any such bull when I switched to my imac.
Also, the way the platform is configured means that those programs you have to install (point 4) just to stop your PC coming to a grindinghalt, all run little background tasks which when all combined take up a nice little chink of your CPU processing.
Yes, Windows7 looks nice and by all accounts very stable - enough to give OSX a good run for it's money which i think is a great thing for the industry, but 7 is still a long way off in terms of driver compatibility and development before it fulfills it's evident promise as the best OS since XP, especially so for serious music application where stability and workflow (i,e, not ing around trying to get it to work) are of prime importance.
The argument about win being too much hassle is a thing of the past will remain until win7 has the compatibility nailed down so the disaster that was vista (or shista as referred to in german speaking countries) is a distant memory, so I'll stick to my imac and not worry about it.
@kit - totally agree. IMO The macbooks aren't worth it in terms of value vs performance when so many PC laptop manufacturers are offering great performance at less money. yes, the maclaps look nice but you're a twat if you buy a laptop so you look cool in starbucks. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Yes, I hear this often enough, mostly stories about people who still own computers from the pre-XP era or managed to pooch their XP PC once or twice and never bothered doing anything to fix it. These are historical curiosities now, though.
Usually the only times I hear about malware infestations these days is either when somebody was running an unpatched PC from god knows how many years ago or (more commonly) lets their 12-year-old kid on the machine to download LimeWire and search for gamez and porn.
I don't think I've ever seen a non-functional Vista PC, and Vista's been around for a good 4 years now.
I think many of today's Mac evangelists switched to the Mac platform several years ago when Windows really sucked and Macs sucked slightly less; over time Macs got better but those same people still have memories of ancient Windows configurations and don't realize that Windows has also improved by leaps and bounds. Just my observation, anyway. |
I'm not having a go but I think your expertise and knowledge is clouding you perception of complex these issues can seem to someone who doesn;t know where device manager is. Try doing a PC helpdesk for a day and speak to average people using PC's and you'll see that it is way more complex to those people than a "defrag" (if they even know what that means).
If you've never seen a non functional vista PC then you've never met anyone using a vista machine. Just look back to the archive on here for years worth inane vista problems that in many cases never got resolved. , even gates said said they coked that one up royally. My mother in law has a vista laptop that just pukes on itself every month for no other reason that it's a OS.
I agree that many switch to mac a bad point for windows and maybe haven;t seen the progress equally but the still things that i think should have been fundamentally addressed with windows such as still relying on the user to do regular maintenace - why? there's no need whatsoever apart from lazy programming or purposeful separation from being like a mac.
I'm not a mac fnaboy - I miss certain things on PC's but once you;ve been doing it for a long time, and your job does not rely on fixing those problems for other people the, I just got bored of fixing the car when I just want to drive. |
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| hexadecimal |
The more it costs, the more trants u can makes with it.
As for the rest of the thread that I skimmed, I can verify from experience with thousands of machines in a production environment that Vista is loaded with problems. |
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| Fledz |
Rann, that wasn't a very convincing argument there mate. Mainly because those are all minor inconveniences.
Sure, the Apple stuff has better compatibility but it locks you in. Third-party development isn't anywhere near what it is on Windows. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Rann, that wasn't a very convincing argument there mate. Mainly because those are all minor inconveniences.
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IMO Not really, especially the problems service packs and updates can cause (again see the past threads on here) not to mention WGA.
If they're so minor, why do they still exist on the windows platform then?
And I don't call a virus or mal/spyware "minor inconveniences", and having to buy and install software to avoid it is even more annoying. God forbid they miss one. None of these problems on macs and you can't deny that.
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Sure, the Apple stuff has better compatibility but it locks you in. Third-party development isn't anywhere near what it is on Windows. |
That's part of the point? You know that going in, so don't buy it if you want to swap all you hardware often. I don't. I couldn't care less about third party support, I want to make music on a hassle free system as possible. As long as soundcards etc are (and they often are first on mac (motu etc.) and you've only got one chice when it comes to apogee and protools HD. |
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| Timothy |
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Off-topic: I was thinking of buying maybe a Mac Pro once they update to the new Westmere xeon and pick up a 32nm 12-core Mac Pro. But I have been hearing how OS X is terrible at scaling and hence OS X won't be able to utilize all that power, it's almost like driving a Ferrari stuck in 2nd gear. Is that still the case after the latest update in Snow Leapard? :conf:
And is OS X still terrible with HT? ( this has also been a big deal breaker for me ) |
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| Specimen303 |
I'm running vista on 2 computers at the moment. One laptop and one desktop. I've never had a need to reinstall either. Both have worked fine since the day i bought them. Defragmentation is running auto scheduled, i run disk cleanup whenever i remember to (not very often), run antivirus program in the background (don't really notice it) and have not have any boogies in ages, none of the recent windows updates have caused me any troubles (Only troubles with external hardware that i've had have been with the cheapest gear, because they don't have certifications needed to go pass uac).
What are those daily updates i should worry about?
I've dealth with production environment with vista and biggest problems are older people forgetting their passwords during their vacation. |
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