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FAO: American Citizens (and everybody else who's interested) (pg. 3)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by R.j.
You honestly don't believe that rights are derived from property? Then where do they come from? |
Lol. traditional libertarians would say people are born with them. |
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| R.j. |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
Lol. traditional libertarians would say people are born with them. |
So are you saying that your body doesn't belong to you?
Look, I'm not trying to stir up. I've heard one thing. And I'm looking for answers. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by R.j.
So are you saying that your body doesn't belong to you? |
So you are saying people are property to be bought and sold? :conf:
No, a person is a person, and a persons person is not property but something on a much much higher level. That is at least how most humans rights treaties treat the idea of people. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by R.j.
So are you saying that your body doesn't belong to you?
Look, I'm not trying to stir up. I've heard one thing. And I'm looking for answers. |
That’s cool, I think your question was valid. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| Yea, RJ, I know you aren't trying to stir up, but I feel blunt responses are the best way to get people to go "WAIT WHAT?" and maybe incline them to do a bit of their own research. |
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| R.j. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
So you are saying people are property to be bought and sold? :conf:
No, a person is a person, and a persons person is not property but something on a much much higher level. That is at least how most humans rights treaties treat the idea of people. |
Well, they were during the times of slavery.
I would think that your body belongs to you because it's yours. You own it. It's not property the way we traditionally think of property, but property for the sole reason that it belongs to you. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by R.j.
I would think that your body belongs to you because it's yours. You own it. It's not property the way we traditionally think of property, but property for the sole reason that it belongs to you. |
That assessment is a-ok if you’re living in your own country, population 1. But there are constraints to ownership that you agree to when joining society. Ie you can’t sell your organs (at least, not in proper countries) and you can be compelled by a court to give samples of your body in criminal proceedings for instance. |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by R.j.
Well, they were during the times of slavery. |
Uh, no. The slaves didn't actually BELONG to the slave owners. You can't OWN somebody. |
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| R.j. |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
That assessment is a-ok if you’re living in your own country, population 1. But there are constraints to ownership that you agree to when joining society. Ie you can’t sell your organs (at least, not in proper countries) and you can be compelled by a court to give samples of your body in criminal proceedings for instance. |
Okay, but let's take it further. If you and I own a piece of property (and I mean entirely own it), is our ownership under a democracy where majority holds a preponderance over a minority protected? |
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| R.j. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Uh, no. The slaves didn't actually BELONG to the slave owners. You can't OWN somebody. |
Actually, they DID own the slaves. That's the whole idea behind slavery. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by R.j.
Okay, but let's take it further. If you and I own a piece of property (and I mean entirely own it), is our ownership under a democracy where majority holds a preponderance over a minority protected? |
Are you asking me to do your homework for you? ;)
Anyway, I think you’re simplifying things too much. The easy answer is it makes no difference. a government can still lay claim to our property regardless of whether its technically a republic or a democracy.
The protections afforded you in your constitution are changed through democratic processes. I know Americans love to masturbate over the “republic” but I find such distinctions rather semantic. |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by R.j.
Actually, they DID own the slaves. That's the whole idea behind slavery. |
No, they didn't. They thought they owned them. You can't actually own a person. A person is not a piece of property. They just thought they were back then. |
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