|
Finishing tracks as a newbie vs never finishing tracks as an amateur. (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| music2dance2 |
Agreed with beatflux on the learning new techniques. I find I learn something new with every track i make. I think spend time messying about with this new technique. I could get fustrated that I've not completed something I wanted to, but as Beatflux put it, its an accomplishment and another tool to add to the list for my next track.
Eventually things will progress quicker as you gain more knowledge. |
|
|
| Kysora |
You're stuck in the period of music production between being excited about creating music and being excited about creating good music. You don't like the process or your end results or whatever and that's ruining the excitement for you. You need to work through it, and if you aren't willing to, then you're never going to get where you want to go.
I don't know if that means you need to reorganize your compositional approach or do new things production-wise, if you need to take a break for a month or double the amount of time you spend working on music, but either way writing essays on how writing music annoys you isn't a great way to work past your problems. |
|
|
| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by beniii
if you're not having fun... why the fk are you doing it...
|
I don't know that doesn't exactly sound right.
So you're saying everytime you sit down to produce you're always "having fun"?
Like if you're not having fun then you just stop? I'm not sure if relationships are a bad analogy, but its not always about fun the way I see it.
Its about commitment, and commitment requires you persist through things even if they aren't always fun. Commitment can require going through hell sometimes imo to reach a goal. For the most part you stay with a partner because the positives outweigh the negatives (hopefully), for music the positives def outweigh the negatives. Just right now I suppose I'm in a hell period, and am trying to persist through it. F
But that just sounds too extreme a statement to really take to heart. |
|
|
| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by music2dance2
You'd be surprised how many people have been, were, or will be in your position. I myself have been there and sometimes go back to that place. I've read other people say similar things about the way they produce.
I've read some interviews from pro producers that explain that same scenario, when they to also done the same, but they also said, and the various people on forums that you do come out the other side and its part of journey, for some.
I can also say myself those same frustrations haunted me but you have to just keep going, you will get where you want to, or at least be in a happier more fulfilling place. In these situations, you have to realise what actually is the problem? If its comparing your tracks to others and hearing your kick or percs aren't up to scratch then you have to work on why that is. Separate things into manageable parts and work on things as you see if fit. This could be reading books to help, having sessions where you solely tweak or put into practice some new techniques, rather than working on a track and doing this while producing (that can be frustrating)
I'm sure on here some one said that same thing when they were newbies they made great melodies but now they just obsess over everything to get it to sound right and the music doesn't sound good. Many people agreed they had or still have that problem, but many also said you do get past that stage
There was a thread on here with a you tube link to an interview. The guy talks about tackling these sort of issue in writing/ journalism but the theory applies to everything, as this situation can happen with anything i guess, writing books, painting, hell playing football i guess. I'll try and dig out that link wasn't anything you didn't know but when someone actually says it in a good way it makes you think.
All I can say Robbie is, sure try working as a newbie again, as others have said take a break, try and make it fun again. Maybe take a long break like a few weeks. But I think you should try and hone in on what problems you have and solve one at a time. |
Thank you you made a lot of good points. I think ideally what you said in the last paragraph is what I need to focus on the most. Not learning new techniques or getting books or watching tuts, but sitting down and finding what got me into music in the first place.
It was truely the freedom and expression that lured me into music, but now with all the rituals, routines, techniques and dictating I do, I seems I've actually destroyed a lot of that freedom.
I do think the most important thing to focus on right now is spoiling myself, anytime I sit down I do what I want to do, not what I think I should be doing (obsessing over a perfect kick bass). Its that free running on instincts thing that got me into music, and now everything is just too calibrated and predictable really. |
|
|
| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
you should not force anything into your music. a good piece of music often will finish itself. elements should fall together naturally and quickly, otherwise it is time to start something new or leave it alone for another time. within the expermentation process, the answers to any problem might unravel at points, but it will require good instinct to make use of the best experiments.
avoid making music using stereotypes of what music is or isnt. that is what a producer that is producing purely a product does. instead you should be making music as an artist, who is sharing a piece of yourself and your surroundings, whether real, ideal, or metaphysical. i started genuinely enjoying the music I was making AFTER I started seeing things as an artist. Its great to enjoy what you are doing, and to get there you have to make something honest to you.
another thing, if you spend a lot of time just mixing the bass or the kick, nake sure you are using good source sounds from the start. That said, you should not be doing heavy mix work if any during the creation process. Just keep putting down ideas and brainstorming, dont mix until you are happy with the ideas, and its time to clean up the mix. because for me, the creation process is fast and instinctual, if I am stopping that to fix the mix at every idea, then eventually I lose the vision I had or the ideas that would have developed. So I avoid mix stuff and just keep creating, unless of course it involves something like a reverb or fx idea that is an important part of that particular sound i'm trying to create.
shorthand :
dont force things
listen to instinct
use/create good source sounds
mix/arrange after creative ideas are in |
Absolutely an amazing post!
EXACTLY how you described completing a song is EXACTLY what it use to feel like when I DID finish tracks back in the day.
Things would literally just snap into place almost, like they were made to go in that specific part of the mix.
Now I try to force that part into the mix 100 different ways till I find something that works, and by the time I get close I've already worn out the edges and its broke.
What I think I'm saying is when I was a newbie it felt natural for things to "fall together" (almost like an accident because I was new so it made sense that my production would be accidents) but I assumed once I reached the point I'm at now, I'd be "putting things together" because I understood completely how they related, and what would work and what wouldn't work. So if I try to put 2 sounds together, they should just fit now right? Def not lol.
It like EVEN with all the knowledge a producer obtains, it still seems like you can never gain the knowledge to "force" sounds together and make them fit.
They really DO need to fall together almost like a perfect accident, or it just needs to be scrapped completely. I just really do need to understand that even as you progress, certain elements of production are always going to seem like roulette or the slot machines, and no amount of knowledge can really organize that process. When you try to, you wind up in my shoes I guess. |
|
|
| Nightshift |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
I don't know that doesn't exactly sound right.
So you're saying everytime you sit down to produce you're always "having fun"?
Like if you're not having fun then you just stop? I'm not sure if relationships are a bad analogy, but its not always about fun the way I see it.
Its about commitment, and commitment requires you persist through things even if they aren't always fun. Commitment can require going through hell sometimes imo to reach a goal. For the most part you stay with a partner because the positives outweigh the negatives (hopefully), for music the positives def outweigh the negatives. Just right now I suppose I'm in a hell period, and am trying to persist through it. F
But that just sounds too extreme a statement to really take to heart. |
This is deep. |
|
|
| jupiterone |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kismet7
|
+1000000000000 |
|
|
| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
I have a few thoughts. First off, you are learning what techniques you don't like. It's an accomplishment, but not the kind you want.
The second thought, the thought that is the complete opposite, is that "Yeah, you are working on that bassline too much." Especially if there are going to be other elements in the track. You can't really judge something until it all comes together. |
This was def one of the best response in here.
I haven't really been thinking about it like that, in the frame of me accomplishing something. Because a tangible product doesn't always = being productive you are right. People are always learning in failure too, so even if I was producing something tangible.. that was , I guess I still technically would be accomplishing something.
I just need to scrap that concept as a justifiable belief right now, because if I don't learn how to channel my energies in a way the results in the completion of a track, I may go another 16 months w/out finishing something.
I know I can logically finish "something", but I see it as pointless if I'm just gonna sit there, criticize the track, and not enjoy it.
At some point I genuinely DID enjoy my own music, but another point later in time, deeper in the learning process, my own music became nothing but a target for criticism and insecurity. I NEVER use to feel like that. Maybe joining forums a few years ago triggered it, and thinking I need to compete and be better then people, I'm not sure.
But the second part of your response is what my instincts are telling me to do right now. I have literally blinded myself to the fact that music is not this part or that part or this detail or that detail, its a SUM of all those parts. The second I'm not happy with a part, (its always usually the kick/bass or first part I'm working on) I scrap the entire song before I ever really even start. I'm just running 100% purely on pleasure for now. When I sit down the first part I WANT to work on is what I'm going to do. If I get bored or frustrated with that part I'm not forcing it anymore, I'll move onto another part. I just need movement and freedom back in my technique. COMPLETE freedom.
I had that when I first started and that was oddly when I felt like I had the most direction to (when I was free and had no direction at all). Makes no g/damn sense at all but I'm just going on instincts now like I said. |
|
|
| Energy_3 |
on a different side, I would seek counseling to resolve the relationship difficulties you face with your audio studio. Explain to the therapist that you feel the love your putting in is clearly not being returned back. And, that it seems to be like your in a one sided relationship.
Jokes aside, I know how you feel, and i think everybody does. At times like a relationship with your partner things become challenging (it just doesnt sound right, fit right whatever, etc)as you mentioned, but you persist with the love even when its not reciprocated. eventually you come out on top, or her on top whichever you prefer.
Keep at it.. :gsmile: |
|
|
| Kismet7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Absolutely an amazing post!
EXACTLY how you described completing a song is EXACTLY what it use to feel like when I DID finish tracks back in the day.
Things would literally just snap into place almost, like they were made to go in that specific part of the mix.
Now I try to force that part into the mix 100 different ways till I find something that works, and by the time I get close I've already worn out the edges and its broke.
What I think I'm saying is when I was a newbie it felt natural for things to "fall together" (almost like an accident because I was new so it made sense that my production would be accidents) but I assumed once I reached the point I'm at now, I'd be "putting things together" because I understood completely how they related, and what would work and what wouldn't work. So if I try to put 2 sounds together, they should just fit now right? Def not lol.
It like EVEN with all the knowledge a producer obtains, it still seems like you can never gain the knowledge to "force" sounds together and make them fit.
They really DO need to fall together almost like a perfect accident, or it just needs to be scrapped completely. I just really do need to understand that even as you progress, certain elements of production are always going to seem like roulette or the slot machines, and no amount of knowledge can really organize that process. When you try to, you wind up in my shoes I guess. |
on top of what you see already, you have to completely believe in yourself and your ideas. part of that comes from being a bit naive to what is out there, and not making music based on stereotypes of what good music might be. instead rely on what you feel is good music. employ the senses as much as possible, so go with what you like hearing, instead of what you've heard. your senses should be the truest barometer. and if you do use something similar to what is out there, make sure you believe in it enough, that it purely becomes an aesthetic, that you and another artist(s) share. |
|
|
| Lyft |
i think you need to give more thought as to how you actually come to a finished product.
this is how i work when i actually finish a tune:
1. write the melodies, bassline, harmonies etc. don't pay too much attention to all the individual sounds until i'm happy with the content & flow.
2. go more into depth with sound selection, making sure i like each individual sound that is playing. this is where i do my layering.
3. mixdown. adjust levels, be more precise with use of effects/dynamics & eq.
4. final adjustments.
5. mixdown again with fresh ears. usually a couple of days after not listening to the tune for a while.
6. rough master for play-out purposes.
this usually nets a result i'm fairly happy with, and i usually finish the track if i follow this meathod.
i've been exactly where u are before man. i got to the point where i was so frustrated with production that i almost considered giving it away completely! i just took a break for a while, and found other things to occupy my time. eventually i got the itch to produce again n i'm really enjoying it.
just like other people have said, don't force it.
it's supposed to be a passion, not work. |
|
|
| KilldaDJ |
my motto is, if it sounds good then who gives a ?
all my productions sound muddy compared to this new sidechained tech house thats being mushed out atm and tbh it all sounds the same.
imo we should go back to producing like a noob and be more creative rather than trying to keep up with todays 'standards'
:) |
|
|
|
|
