Originally posted by woscar
Yeah, and I think they have built a nice fan-base from people like you and me that enjoy the out of statements like these:
"To "choose" dogma and faith over doubt and experience is to throw out the ripening vintage and to reach greedily for the Kool-Aid. "
-Christopher Hitchens
"Religious people split into three main groups when faced with science. I shall label them the "know-nothings", the "know-alls", and the "no-contests""
-Richard Dawkins
:stongue:
see lira, how dare you suggest that such tones are counter-productive! little is more valuable than mirth!
Lews
quote:
Originally posted by woscar
I think that only an idiot would disagree with the fact that the overall message of the story of Jesus, which comes to a pinnacle with the sermon on the mount, is a positive one for mankind (regardless of his being a divinity or not).
I thought his overall message was love your neighbor as yourself =/
Except homosexuals, of course.
Lews
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
Universal morals don't make sense.
Do I think that theoretically there are universal morals? Maybe. However it's surely not pragmatic, and highly dangerous territory in the area of civil liberties and cultural diversity. Human civilization is an ecosystem of sorts. In any ecosystem, sustainability is guaranteed through diversity. Sort of a checks and balances situation. I believe human civilization requires the same sort of cultural diversity to prosper. (and also diversity in nature, but that's another topic...)
I get into this argument with my girlfriend all the time. Yes, cultural diversity is a very important thing, and yes we shouldn't assume that we are better than other people and they need to follow what we believe to be objective universal morals, however, I don't understand how things like "killing people is bad" shouldn't be a universal moral.
nefardec
quote:
Originally posted by Lews
however, I don't understand how things like "killing people is bad" shouldn't be a universal moral.
..it already is.. was this sarcasm?
Capitalizt
quote:
Originally posted by woscar
There's a wonderful and cheerful little movie that you should watch called "Jesus Camp". ;)
excerpt..
Halcyon+On+On
quote:
Originally posted by nefardec
..it already is.. was this sarcasm?
But if morality can come and go as political or social climate does, what good is establishing certain actions as universal or not? You basically said this yourself. Killing is an entirely moral act when you have the appropriate reasons. Would you agree?
Capitalizt
quote:
Originally posted by woscar
Marcus, there are times when being aggressive works in the context of speaking for atheism.
We need both. There are "kindler gentler" Carl Sagan types who believe teaching science and skeptical thinking is the way to slowly wean people away from superstition, but sometimes education isn't enough to shake people out of their stupor, and you need to slap-a-bitch like Dawkins/Hitchens/Harris are doing..
Here's an excerpt from a conference where Dawkins was debating Laurence Krauss, Neal Degrasse Tyson, and a few other "peaceful" atheists who believe in education and persuasion was the way to win people over. I think Dawkins' response sums it up nicely ;)
Domesticated
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Not all religious people are fundamentalists.
If you approach them with a preachy voice and an aggressive tone, it's very unlikely that you'll ever persuade them. If, however, you treat them as equals, you may not do wonders at first, but they'll sure be more receptive to whatever it is that you've got to say.
Fundamentalists are a lost case, though.
Why would you approach a religious person as an equal? Clearly, someone who believes in an old man in the sky ready to punish them for not believing in him isn't on your level.
Halcyon+On+On
Just what is "clear" about that?
Domesticated
quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Just what is "clear" about that?
I was being facetious. There are more important aspects to participating in society than intelligence. A atheist serial killer obviously isn't any better than a religious charity-worker.
However, I have little time for people with a limited grasp of reality.
Halcyon+On+On
Well you'd certainly be a minority in that respect, if ********'s threads are any indication.
Domesticated
quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Well you'd certainly be a minority in that respect, if ********'s threads are any indication.
:stongue:
Last night I met this writer from New York and we were having a discussion about Philip K. Dick. There's someone with a limited grasp of reality who should have stuck around.
