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Mixing/Mastering feedback on a track I made (pg. 2)
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
The low end is where the most energy is in your track and is what eats into your headroom
If your kick is hitting the meter at -6db (and assuming it will be your loudest element and you reference everything to it) the master channel should stay -6db regardless of the other elements you add into your track (and of course assuming no limiters/eq etc on your master channel)
If the elements you add knock the master level up over your reference (in this case the kick at -6db) then you need to look at what you are adding |
No one else has commented on this post so either its passed some of you by or I'm overtired and cracking up but surely this is complete bollocks?
If you set your kick to say -6db, and use your kick as your reference point, adding other sounds will increase the master level peak above -6db.
What Evo8 seems to be saying is that we should be able to add all our other sounds to the mix without the master increasing above the peak level of the kick..?
This is surely wrong. As soon as other sounds get added to the mix, the master will peak higher and higher (unless only a few sounds are added and none play when the kick hits, then yes, the peak would probably stay the same).
I typically start a mixdown with my kick peaking somewhere between -6db and -8db depending on the kick. From there, I will add everything else. By the time I'm finished, the master will be peaking somewhere around -1 to -2db with perhaps the odd random spike which I will go in and correct manually.
To suggest that I should be able to add all other sounds to the mix without the master peaking above the kicks peak level is absurd and just plain wrong.
If I've completely misunderstood, then I apologies. |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
No one else has commented on this post so either its passed some of you by or I'm overtired and cracking up but surely this is complete bollocks?
If you set your kick to say -6db, and use your kick as your reference point, adding other sounds will increase the master level peak above -6db.
What Evo8 seems to be saying is that we should be able to add all our other sounds to the mix without the master increasing above the peak level of the kick..?
This is surely wrong. As soon as other sounds get added to the mix, the master will peak higher and higher (unless only a few sounds are added and none play when the kick hits, then yes, the peak would probably stay the same).
I typically start a mixdown with my kick peaking somewhere between -6db and -8db depending on the kick. From there, I will add everything else. By the time I'm finished, the master will be peaking somewhere around -1 to -2db with perhaps the odd random spike which I will go in and correct manually.
To suggest that I should be able to add all other sounds to the mix without the master peaking above the kicks peak level is absurd and just plain wrong.
If I've completely misunderstood, then I apologies. |
emmm i wouldnt exactly say its "complete bollocks"
ill be in the same boat as you sometimes, ill have the kick peaking at maybe -7db but the master will be at maybe -4db overall - i think its unlikely that all elements in the mix will not phase with each other and if you tried to correct it all you're track might start to sound too clinical
But i still think that for dance music the loudest element will be the kick and you should reference everything off that - why not have as much headroom as possible? otherwise you will be engaging limiters when it could be otherwise avoided |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
emmm i wouldnt exactly say its "complete bollocks"
ill be in the same boat as you sometimes, ill have the kick peaking at maybe -7db but the master will be at maybe -4db overall - i think its unlikely that all elements in the mix will not phase with each other and if you tried to correct it all you're track might start to sound too clinical
But i still think that for dance music the loudest element will be the kick and you should reference everything off that - why not have as much headroom as possible? otherwise you will be engaging limiters when it could be otherwise avoided |
I do reference off the kick and I'll always mix with the aim to leave as much room as possible. Doesn't change the fact that the master will peak louder than the kick. During the main part of a tune, when the kick hits, there might also be a lead, a pad, a bass line, several percussive hits, maybe another synth of some sort, and whatever else all playing the same time when the kick hits....and you're suggesting to the OP that he should still be keeping the master at the same peak as the kick solo? |
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| Beatflux |
Mixing and mastering aren't magic and they aren't going to be a band aid to a boring song.
Mixing is the last 20-1% of the process, and mastering is usually 1-0%. Why 1-0%? Most mastering these days isn't about making the song better, its about making it louder. Loudness is not better. A mastering engineer should never waste his time doing what an person could do: turn up the volume knob.
If the song is good, people will turn it up. If it sucks, they will turn it down. This has nothing to do with how loud something is. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
I do reference off the kick and I'll always mix with the aim to leave as much room as possible. Doesn't change the fact that the master will peak louder than the kick. During the main part of a tune, when the kick hits, there might also be a lead, a pad, a bass line, several percussive hits, maybe another synth of some sort, and whatever else all playing the same time when the kick hits....and you're suggesting to the OP that he should still be keeping the master at the same peak as the kick solo? |
You're sort of right, but generally when you get a bunch of sound waves and stick them together, they will be LESS than the sum of their parts. So it does usually wind up that if you work off the kick, you'll only get a couple of dB more on the meters when you add everything else in IME. I usually set the kick to -6 and get everything else to run up to around -3-0 dB |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
You're sort of right, but generally when you get a bunch of sound waves and stick them together, they will be LESS than the sum of their parts. So it does usually wind up that if you work off the kick, you'll only get a couple of dB more on the meters when you add everything else in IME. I usually set the kick to -6 and get everything else to run up to around -3-0 dB |
^^^ That would usually be my experience as well |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
^^^ That would usually be my experience as well |
Really? Well best think about how you give advice out in future
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
If your kick is hitting the meter at -6db (and assuming it will be your loudest element and you reference everything to it) the master channel should stay -6db regardless of the other elements you add into your track |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by G-Con
Really? Well best think about how you give advice out in future |
YES SIR! :D |
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| G-Con |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
YES SIR! :D |
lol, yeah sorry if that came across like I'm your dad or something..:p |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by evo8
YES SIR! :D |
Yeah, well it did kind of sound like you were saying that your track should never rise above your level of the kick AT ALL if you were mixing properly... A touch ill phrased perhaps... |
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| evo8 |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
Yeah, well it did kind of sound like you were saying that your track should never rise above your level of the kick AT ALL if you were mixing properly... A touch ill phrased perhaps... |
maybe i should have said thats what i "aim for" but the master will rarely stay exactly at the kick level
anyway i think its good practice but we are all free to mix how we like - carry on :D |
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| Nick Cenik |
By no means am I an expert on mixing and mastering, but here's how I generally do it with my productions:
Levels:
-kick peaking around -8 or -7dB
-sub-bass peaking around -11 or -10dB
-bass-line peaking around -10dB
-snare peaking around -16 to -13dB (depending on sample)
-hi-hats and shakers peaking around -20 to -14dB (depending on sample)
Mixdown:
-I like to leave at least 3dB of headroom when I do my final mixdown (I check the Master fader in Ableton after rending the WAV as the fader tells you how high the Master peaked during the render)
'Mastering':
-My own quick 'mastering' (mainly to bring the levels up) works like this--> render WAV with 30hz low-cut on Master (0.71 Q) with at least 3dB headroom--> apply PSP VW (multibandcomplim setting, output to -0.2dB), render WAV--> apply Waves L2 (threshold as close as possible without attenuating signal, output to -0.2dB), render WAV--> apply Waves again if decided, render WAV.
A fellow producer was kind enough to teach me the above 'mastering' process. By no means is it perfect, but I'm grateful for the knowledge he shared with me :) |
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