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Crazy question, when I use a lot of vsts in 1 mix sometimes they don't sound on pitch
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| DJ Robby Rox |
Pitch has been a huge problem for me giving up on tracks. I notice for one a lot of times if I'm synthesizing my own patch from scratch that certain parameters besides pitch can make a sound sound off key.
For instance on sytrus when I start playing around with FM and RM settings I may like a certain result I get, but when I go to play the result in the track all a sudden it sounds off pitch.
I also notice it seems that certain vsts don't seem to mix that well with others. Or maybe its just stupid me blaming my tools again. But it genuinely sounds like that sometimes.
For instance synth 1 for some reason I can get my basses sounding like their on key, but if I detune a lead too much it sounds off key. Detuning IS affecting the pitch isn't it? I notice specifically when I detune too much the patch no longer works at all. Is this because the key is actually changing?
Its not just detuning like I said. A lot of times RM and FM adjustments on other synths seem to remove the original patches ability to "fit" on key right. Like I take the preset and start tweaking it and it can't be used anymore cause the pitch changes.
If I use 2 different synths, I can try to match parameters somewhat but obviously its never the same result. MOST of the time presets will sound on key. But when I get deep into tweaking on almost any day this always seems to happen where I lose the original key.
Am I missing something or is this just experience I'm lacking? I know a lot of people are gonna say "just use your ears" but I've said before I can't hear keys or match pitch by ear it always sounds off.
Any tips or advice I'd really appreciate. |
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| Zombie0729 |
the word de-tuning should be self explanatory... i don't know what else they could name it that would be even more clear?
you should always be designing sounds while looping your track. same goes w/ sample browsing etc. if you detune something from a C to something inbetween B&C then obviously if your bassline is playing C then they two might not sound perfectly in pitch together. if you can hear that though clearly you can recognize pitch?
again just always sound design w/ your track on loops, you'll make better decisions on things like pitch, filter, envelope etc |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
the word de-tuning should be self explanatory... i don't know what else they could name it that would be even more clear? |
They could have named it "great way to up your sounds".
Its not the label that gets me its the concept of how much it takes to officially make your sound sound off key.
If I detune up to 40 or 50 on vanguard it still sounds on key (sometimes), but if I detune it 127 it becomes obvious usually that its too much and is off key.
Its hard figuring out how much is too much sometimes. When I'm around 70-90 I honestly have no idea if its on key anymore. And when you have say 3 or 4 different sounds that are detuned, even if its small amounts it just seems sometimes it randomly works and other times it doesnt. Thats the same with RM and FM a lot of times too.
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
you should always be designing sounds while looping your track. same goes w/ sample browsing etc. if you detune something from a C to something inbetween B&C then obviously if your bassline is playing C then they two might not sound perfectly in pitch together. if you can hear that though clearly you can recognize pitch? |
Ok interesting point I guess I can recognize pitch I never though about in reverse like that. I can def hear when somethings off pitch its the fixing part I guess that gets me.
I do usually always loop sounds while mixing its just that I don't always use all the sounds that are actually going to be in that loop. A lot of times because of how slow my computer is I have to delete an entire synth and save a new version w/out that synth. Then I'll work on other parts in that loop, render, and bring back to the original. So it would prob help to update my cpu so I can actually loop everything thats gonna be playing together while its in synth form still and not a bounced wav file.
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0729
again just always sound design w/ your track on loops, you'll make better decisions on things like pitch, filter, envelope etc |
Ok will do. I'm kinda getting tired of not having the ability to use my computer like I actually want so I think its time I get a new cpu.
Thanks! |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
They could have named it "great way to up your sounds".
Its not the label that gets me its the concept of how much it takes to officially make your sound sound off key.
If I detune up to 40 or 50 on vanguard it still sounds on key (sometimes), but if I detune it 127 it becomes obvious usually that its too much and is off key. |
There's a principle of psycho-acoustics which says that whenever you have different pitches, close enough together, that the pitch which exist between them is the one which is heard. This third note is referred to as a Beat Frequency. What you're doing, when detuning a synthesizer, is essentially creating a third note - which is the one predominately heard (unless you're panning differently pitched oscillators - in which case you'll only hear the third note as a result of the tones summing in the center of the stereo field.)
A note which is out of key, therefore, could be due to the fact that one of the oscillators is detuned while another is pure-toned. It could be that you have both detuned equally but the volume of one of the oscillators is too low. If your using a Unison function (essentially multiplying the number of times a note is played concurrently and therefore creating phase acoustic effects which impart diversity to the harmonic field) and tweaking the detune function there, at certain thresholds, depending on the sound, you're going to have tones which are too far apart to have tonal integrity. |
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| david.michael |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Its hard figuring out how much is too much sometimes. |
When it sounds off-key, it's too much. :) |
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| Nightshift |
| quote: | Originally posted by david.michael
When it sounds off-key, it's too much. :) |
+1, unless of course thats the sound you are looking for. |
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