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The Periodic Table of PKC's greatest enemies (pg. 4)
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| igottaknow |
| i wasn't aware the pkc believes in weird . I do know he is a volatile element |
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| Tranceporter99 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Pure Land Buddhism.
The Buddha made as many mistake as any philosopher would have made back in his day (or even now, for that matter) and there are a couple of things that are downright delusional in his teachings as well. There are the 10 different realms of being (you need to work very hard in the hypothesis that this is all a metaphor if you want it to make sense), some more concrete interpretations of what Karma might be, the whole reincarnation process (the Buddha even tells parables about his so-called past lives) - lest we forget, the reason why Nirvana is supposed to be desirable is because it is a break in the cycle of life-and-death. If you refuse there's such a thing as reincarnation, most of what is taken for granted in Buddhism becomes just senseless: why would you want to take an ascetic lifestyle if this is your only take in life? Sure, Buddhists say "life is painful" and all that but, while you're at it, aren't you better of trying to do something with the world around you instead of simply anticipating what death will eventually bring you? Namely, nothingness?
Buddhism was very important to me in my late teens as a way to break free from Christianity. However, it'd be pretty ironic if I liberated myself from one intellectual cast just to harden my mind in another :p |
I feel like he got a lot of stuff right. It seems that the new(ish) branch of positive psychology is repeating stuff that the original buddha came up with 2,000 years ago. Do his parables of his alleged past lives make his insights or observations about reality less legitimate? I don't think so. His philosophies on the nature of suffering (namely desire) and his diagramming of the wheel of suffering are as relevant today as they were a few millennia ago. If I remember, you posted a thread about non-dualism a few months ago. Non-dualism has been a basic tenet of Buddhism, specifically Zen, for thousands of years.
I completely agree with the issues you bring up with reincarnation, nirvana, and enlightenment. A lot of Zen practitioners, both lay and ordained, I have talked to or heard speak field the same criticisms of traditional "religious" buddhism. Zazen makes sense to me. As do the writings of Dogen, Shunryu Suzuki, and other Zen writers. I don't bother with reincarnation or enlightenment.
| quote: | | Originally posted by Lira why would you want to take an ascetic lifestyle if this is your only take in life? |
The Buddha was an ascetic and he realized it was useless, and dangerous. Buddhism is about the balance between satiating your desires and completely ignoring them. The middle road between hedonism and the abstinence from everything. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
You might argue that asceticism is the surest way to happiness in the one life you have. If desires lead to suffering like Buddhism says, then by paring them down, you reduce your suffering. On the other hand, a lot of people might view happiness as something more positive than just lack of suffering. |
But if the existence of an afterlife (or a life after life) is not warranted, wouldn't you say that you will inevitably reach a nirvana-like state in death/permanent-unconsciousness? That is, you wouldn't feel pain (or anything else, for that matter, thus attaining the ultimate goal of the Buddhist tradition). If such is the case, wouldn't you just be avoiding the inevitable and forfeiting the opportunity a chance to a non-ascetic lifestyle? |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Funny thing is: I don't remember where I found it. At all! I woke up earlier today and tried to stay awake browsing the internet before I eventually collapsed and went back to bed. I know I posted this in a zombie-like state of consciousness and it instantly reminded me of something PKC would want in the CORe... but I don't remember where I got it from.
I assume it was from a RSS feed, or was it from (your?) Facebook? Hmmm.... |
Someone posted it here on TA a few days ago. I emailed it to my hippy, new age mum :p
Edit: It was Ben, in the random talking thread. |
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| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
A lot of that stuff is not even supernatural, though. Cryptozoology, claims about aliens, government conspiracies, much of the alternative medicine stuff, historical revisionism, crank physics claims like perpetual motion. |
Well i was referring to the belief in a higher being though i see how i was very vague about it.
I should have just gone all out and say that believing in anything on that is bat insane. |
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| GoSpeedGo! |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
I feel like he got a lot of stuff right. It seems that the new(ish) branch of positive psychology is repeating stuff that the original buddha came up with 2,000 years ago. Do his parables of his alleged past lives make his insights or observations about reality less legitimate? I don't think so. His philosophies on the nature of suffering (namely desire) and his diagramming of the wheel of suffering are as relevant today as they were a few millennia ago. If I remember, you posted a thread about non-dualism a few months ago. Non-dualism has been a basic tenet of Buddhism, specifically Zen, for thousands of years. |
Now, I should be clear about my own views here and what it is that I'm criticising. I'm seriously indebted to Buddhist metaphysics in much of my current worldview, in its more practical core. Were Buddha's insights valuable to me? Well, quite a few of them. But it doesn't follow from that that the whole doctrine is flawless, or didn't take for granted things that we find delusional nowadays.
I mean, sometimes you still find the occasional reference to demons, ghosts, spirits and whatnot. And, lest we forget, the Buddha never wrote anything in his lifetime (that slacker! :p) so we just have to deal with interpretations and interpretations of a set of ideas that were from their inception all too human.
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
I completely agree with the issues you bring up with reincarnation, nirvana, and enlightenment. A lot of Zen practitioners, both lay and ordained, I have talked to or heard speak field the same criticisms of traditional "religious" buddhism. Zazen makes sense to me. As do the writings of Dogen, Shunryu Suzuki, and other Zen writers. I don't bother with reincarnation or enlightenment. |
Well, this is the most practical side of Buddhism, I'd say, and I don't really have a problem with you sitting and trying to keep your mind clear or whatever it is that you're meditating for.
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
The Buddha was an ascetic and he realized it was useless, and dangerous. Buddhism is about the balance between satiating your desires and completely ignoring them. The middle road between hedonism and the abstinence from everything. |
I remember the parable of the sitar string, and it is indeed a call for temperance. However, the call for asceticism is pervasive in Buddhist thought because of the avoidance of suffering. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
Someone posted it here on TA a few days ago. I emailed it to my hippy, new age mum :p
Edit: It was Ben, in the random talking thread. |
I wish I could send it to mine, but she doesn't speak English. Currently, she believes in: some sort of psychics, crystal power, astral projection, indigo children (and swears to God I'm one), past life regression, spiritualism, aura, automatic writing, Christianity, homoeopathy, and I'm just too shocked to have spotted "Colonic Irrigation" (What the hell!?) to go on with this list :nervous: |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I wish I could send it to mine. Currently, she believes in: some sort of psychics, crystal power, astral projection, indigo children (and swears to God I'm one), past life regression, spiritualism, aura, automatic writing, Christianity, homoeopathy, and I'm just too shocked to have spotted "Colonic Irrigation" (What the hell!?) to go on with this list :nervous: |
My mum's into a heap of those things you just mentioned... :( Hence why I emailed it to her :p |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
But it doesn't follow from that that the whole doctrine is flawless |
I think the whole notion of flawlessness or that any 'doctrine' could be flawless is maybe the biggest fallacy and philosophical conundrum facing the whole enterprise. |
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| Lira |
I feel your pain, Stu :(
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
I think the whole notion of flawlessness or that any 'doctrine' could be flawless is maybe the biggest fallacy and philosophical conundrum facing the whole enterprise. |
Say what? |
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