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Mastering with the right sub bass levels
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| teluan |
I completed my first Melodic Trance song last night after a long hiatus playing/writing electronic music (LOVE Reason BTW). I spent a lot of time mastering it and tweaking all the sounds so that the song sounds balanced and crisp. I have decent studio monitors, bassy inner ear noise cancelling head phones and a standard pair of over the ear headphones. All three sounded great when I was mastering. Then I burned the song onto a CD and tried it out in my wife's car that has a 10" sub in the trunk and discovered I have zero deep bass notes. WTF?
My conclusion is that in order to master Trance music a subwoofer is needed to truly deliver the bottom end. This might start a religious war as it seems many people insist on mastering on studio monitors. Even the sales person at my local music store was convinced all I need is a better pair of studio monitors. In fact he showed me the best pair in the store that "apparently" had so much bass you did not need a subwoofer. I was not impressed...sounds the same as what I have at home. I asked him to plug in a subwoofer to the same source and the difference with the sub was clear. Much much punchier sound.
So, are my findings common? What do you use to master your songs? |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
I have decent studio monitors,
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Decent is a subjective adjective. What model are you using?
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
bassy inner ear noise cancelling head phones and a standard pair of over the ear headphones.
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I wouldn't use headphones of any type in the mixing and mastering phase for more than just quick reference checks. Headphones by their very nature tend to hype frequencies because of the proximity of the speaker to your ears.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
My conclusion is that in order to master Trance music a subwoofer is needed to truly deliver the bottom end.
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No, its not.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
This might start a religious war as it seems many people insist on mastering on studio monitors.
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And plenty of people do, including myself.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
Even the sales person at my local music store was convinced all I need is a better pair of studio monitors.
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On this point he was right.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
In fact he showed me the best pair in the store that "apparently" had so much bass you did not need a subwoofer. I was not impressed...sounds the same as what I have at home. I asked him to plug in a subwoofer to the same source and the difference with the sub was clear. Much much punchier sound.
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OK, here is the deal with Subs. Subs are great, IF you have a good room that is large enough and acoustically treated. Most people do not. Put a standard sub in a 12 x 12 bedroom and its going to hype the low end like nothing else. This, of course, will likely make you think that your track has too much bass, which causes you to lower it, and then when you go out and listen to it on another system, the bass sounds light.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
So, are my findings common? What do you use to master your songs? |
Not really. Plenty of people do fine without a sub. In many cases it can be more of a hindrance than a help, especially in a small room. Getting everything to sit well in the mix is really just a matter of practice and experience for the most part. You may want to try using a spectrum analyzer to take a look at the finder details of whats going on in your track, but I'm more inclined to believe that you just need a little more practice and experience.
Posting a sample of your track might help us identify any perceived deficiencies and give more targeted advice on what you may (or may not) be hearing. |
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| Mad for Brad |
| you just mentioned you made your first track. CHances are your ears are not developed and you don't know what to listen for regardless of the monitors. A sub isn't going to help you. |
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| teluan |
Thanks Eric for the long reply. I am using KRK VXT8 studio monitors. They sound great and have decent bass. That said they really do not pound like my wife's 10" sub...no where close.
The reason I want to ensure I have good master with deep bass is because my songs will be played at a local nightclub. It needs to pound yet remain clear in the mids and highs.
I have a 10" Klipsch sub in my home theater room that is really deep. I am going to wire it into my music workstation and see if that helps. If it does then I know I need a sub.
That all said, I can see the point of have a big sub and lowering the bass to only find out it was too low later on another system (I have the exact opposite situation right now. This is where your experience comment comes in. Once I think I have found the right balance I can confirm it on several playback systems. This will help me fine tune and learn what to adjust next time. I am going to try this tonight.
I will also see if I can post the original in question song and what I hoped is the fixed song.
Thanks |
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| Eric J |
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
Thanks Eric for the long reply. I am using KRK VXT8 studio monitors. They sound great and have decent bass. That said they really do not pound like my wife's 10" sub...no where close.
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OK, not horrible monitors, but not that great either, IMO. Middle of the road. You should be able to get pretty close using just those.
I wouldn't be comparing the sound on your monitors to the sound coming out of a home stereo systems. Great monitors are supposed to be flat and revealing. Home Stereo speakers are designed to be hyped in certain areas, especially bass. Do not use them as anything other than a quick reference and do not make mixing decisions based upon them.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
The reason I want to ensure I have good master with deep bass is because my songs will be played at a local nightclub. It needs to pound yet remain clear in the mids and highs.
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Yes, I understand.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
I have a 10" Klipsch sub in my home theater room that is really deep. I am going to wire it into my music workstation and see if that helps. If it does then I know I need a sub.
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See my previous comments about home stereo speakers. Do not make mixing decisions based on hyped consumer speakers. Honestly, I would strongly recommend that you take a look at your mix before spending any money on a sub.
| quote: | Originally posted by teluan
That all said, I can see the point of have a big sub and lowering the bass to only find out it was too low later on another system (I have the exact opposite situation right now. This is where your experience comment comes in. Once I think I have found the right balance I can confirm it on several playback systems. This will help me fine tune and learn what to adjust next time. I am going to try this tonight.
I will also see if I can post the original in question song and what I hoped is the fixed song.
Thanks |
That would be helpful. |
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| EddieZilker |
Why don't you just port it over to your wife's system, then?
Aren't you doing comparisons between your work and artists who make similar work?
Go here: http://www.bluecataudio.com/Product...ct_FreqAnalyst/
Get yourself, this:
Put it on the back end of your master plug-in chain.
If you put too much bass on a tune, you're probably not going to make a very nightclub PA system friendly song, anyway. |
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| johncannons1 |
i got a sub and it helps alot.
however i do take my tracks to my car with loud subs and play it..
i do burn it on cd's with pro trance tracks on for reference |
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