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Listen to a mas--....mix? (pg. 3)
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| Mad for Brad |
| quote: | Originally posted by nortek
its ing important imo that a cd have the same perceived volume all the way. i dont have a remote for my amp. lol. |
no it isn't. Why would a heavy rock song be the same volume as a ballad with solo voice and guitar. Albums always vary in perceived loudness. Unless al the material is the same. |
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| Atlantis-AR |
Listening to the mixdown now...
Your bass range is too muddy. The bassline itself sounds great on its own but it does cover a wide range of frequencies, why you'll have to be extra careful selecting a kick. And indeed I don't find the kick sample that great. It builds on the same bass as the bassline so you're getting a muddy drone that isn't complimented with an equally bright treble. It's hard to tell what I would do to change it other than changing the sample or approaching the EQ from a different angle. It might pay to look at EQing the bass, like cutting it around 110 Hz to make room for the kick here. Then turn anything but the kick and bass up (or the kick and bass down) as your bass range is too loud. Especially the open hat could do with more volume, and the snare is hardly audible. The crash level at 0:55 is pretty much spot on, so try basing things on that. Then work on clarifying your mid-range instruments. Some, especially leads, could do with more upper mid presence. Also consider compression to thicken things up. But the first step would be to get the kick and bass sorted in terms of level and EQ, as the rest of the mix is so dependent on it.
Now, switching over to the master...
0:27 definitely sounds too distorted, like the master limiter is working too hard.
I don't notice much of the multi-band compression you mentioned. Also the kick and bass still stick out at the forefront of the track, though definitely not as much in comparison.
Your treble and snare levels are certainly improved.
But overall your master does sound better, and you've targeted most of the mix issues, only I find the master limiter is doing too much damage.
As has been said though, there's no need to be mastering. Better improve your mixing skills first. |
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| Nightshift |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
no it isn't. Mastering Engineers have never tried to make all the tracks have the same rms level. More or less the same but never a target value which you stated. You also edited your post to explain your myth. They try and make the cd have a dynamic progression that makes sense, not make things equal. And if they did, they were engineers. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Mastering if anything is preparing something for a certain media format. They do sometimes have to do extra work because of weak mixes but really, that is all mastering every was and should be. Taking out garbage and artifacts ? that is something you fix in the recording process or at least in the mixing stage. |
Quoted for Emphasis. |
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| theterran |
So after 3 pages and 9 seperate individuals responding...only 2 actually give critical advice on the topic stated in the thread...
Interesting. (I think they're just trying to look cool, while not actually contributing anything...) And with google and youtube at my disposal, don't I know everything? All I have to do is search. But it's not like I can upload my tracks onto google and ask it's opinion...(yet? dun dun dun)
That said...I absolutely 100% appreciate the feedback from nortek and Atlantis. (And beatflux, yes 10 years of cello instruction, but no hardcore musical theory, and thank you for the compliment)
I'm more than happy to take the advice into account on the mixdown and try to work it out, this wasn't entirely a troll post. (But I do know that people get super bent about "mastering") It was very simple actually, which sounds better, 1 or 2? The goal was to improve it without going into the mix itself.
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Safe to say I had a general idea what was already wrong too, but what's wrong with second opinions?
The master sounds better to me on fresh ears, as it at least adds some clarity to the mix and adds some depth to the hats, crashes and snare. So if I could rework the master where it didn't trash the meds, and fixed my bass/kick, the track would be in good shape.
Consider this as a discussion of a proper mixdown vs. trying to correct a bad mix in the mastering process. We are trained as a society that mistakes are bad, but the best way to learn is to make them. Make them blatantly, make them proudly, you learn 100% faster by simply making mistakes. (Unless your mistake kills you)
And why did I want to try and fix a track without going into the mix in the first place?
Because we live in a free world I can. It was a fun attempt, and I can simply drop the mastered track in my recyling bin if I don't like it, as everything was done outside FL-studio. |
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| Raphie |
listened and here is my 2cts: There is nothing to "fix" in the master that could not be fixed in the mix.
would focus on cleaning up the "mud" (300<>500hz area)
remove the harsh highs
forget what Nortek said about RTA, a perfect master does not look flat.
cut down on additive EQ and try to cut only
Be 100% happy with your mix (if you still tell yourself, i'll fix that when the levels come up, then there is still room for improvement)
then master
regarding mastering
- read about the K system, calibrate your speakers
- know your room
- no EQ (if you need to EQ go back to the mix)
- decent compression, read about attack / decay times, how you calculate them and how they affect your mix
- limit with a physics based limiter (not brickwall)
- dither properly
once you master above, you can tell yourself what's currently wrong with your master |
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| theterran |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
listened and here is my 2cts: There is nothing to "fix" in the master that could not be fixed in the mix.
would focus on cleaning up the "mud" (300<>500hz area)
remove the harsh highs
forget what Nortek said about RTA, a perfect master does not look flat.
cut down on additive EQ and try to cut only
Be 100% happy with your mix (if you still tell yourself, i'll fix that when the levels come up, then there is still room for improvement)
then master
regarding mastering
- read about the K system, calibrate your speakers
- know your room
- no EQ (if you need to EQ go back to the mix)
- decent compression, read about attack / decay times, how you calculate them and how they affect your mix
- limit with a physics based limiter (not brickwall)
- dither properly
once you master above, you can tell yourself what's currently wrong with your master |
<3, thanks much. |
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| Raphie |
and some more perspective:
- most mastering advises online are from people who are mastering other people's tracks, they often come with tips, ideas and thoughts to "fix" stuff because they don't have access to individual tracks or notes of the song. Don't get distracted by that and try to implement all those tricks, while you still have access to the mix.
- A mix will NEVER be perfect, moods change, perception changes, I want to hear that hihat ride... I want that clap louder.
next day, too much noise, that clap is way too loud. recognize the feeling? > Settle with consensus, something that sounds awesome on good days, and you don't really know what to change if anything on bad days (those are often the days that you overengineer/screw-up a good thing!!!)
- commit to the mix: once you have consensus in your head > do a mixdown on 32bit if oyur daw allows (otherwise 24bit) and work from there. don't stay in an accessable arrangement too long. It's like sharing the bed with your ex-girlfiend, you her just becuase you can, for old times sake.
- put a limiter on your mix, just to get a feel where it's going. don't mix into a limiter full time, but it might help to get and overall feel of what oyu can expect once the levels go up.
also already put that limiter aiming towards roughly -8db rms on a K12 level.
- also bright is bad, dull is good. aim for a smooth silky sound rather than a hard piercing one. If you want something that sounds good to stand out more > dull the rest.
Good luck! |
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| theterran |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
and some more perspective:
- most mastering advises online are from people who are mastering other people's tracks, they often come with tips, ideas and thoughts to "fix" stuff because they don't have access to individual tracks or notes of the song. Don't get distracted by that and try to implement all those tricks, while you still have access to the mix.
- A mix will NEVER be perfect, moods change, perception changes, I want to hear that hihat ride... I want that clap louder.
next day, too much noise, that clap is way too loud. recognize the feeling? > Settle with consensus, something that sounds awesome on good days, and you don't really know what to change if anything on bad days (those are often the days that you overengineer/screw-up a good thing!!!)
- commit to the mix: once you have consensus in your head > do a mixdown on 32bit if oyur daw allows (otherwise 24bit) and work from there. don't stay in an accessable arrangement too long. It's like sharing the bed with your ex-girlfiend, you her just becuase you can, for old times sake.
- put a limiter on your mix, just to get a feel where it's going. don't mix into a limiter full time, but it might help to get and overall feel of what oyu can expect once the levels go up.
also already put that limiter aiming towards roughly -8db rms on a K12 level.
- also bright is bad, dull is good. aim for a smooth silky sound rather than a hard piercing one. If you want something that sounds good to stand out more > dull the rest.
Good luck! |
Also needed to get my hands on some better softsynths, as analogue is still outta da question atm. (Which I've just done with Sylenth1 and Massive)
I was using Poizone/Sytrus/Toxic Biohazard and a bit of Nexus + an old Roland analogue synth for anything phat. I tried my best to make due with what I had...
I do find it really hard working with sound that already starts out rough in the first place, so starting with nice phat sound that doesn't need alot of work has been a plus.
I have been indeed learning since Track2 though, and I've actually been getting alot more positive feedback on more recent mixes.
And why k12 over k14? |
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| Atlantis-AR |
| quote: | Originally posted by theterran
And why k12 over k14? |
I use K-14 myself. |
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| Raphie |
K-14 will not bring you commercial loudness unless you go into the reds on that scale. It's more like audiophile CD type loudness, leaving room for huge dynamics, but i guess it depends on what your goal is.
K14 is fine for a mix, leaves headroom to master towards -8dbrms @Mastering against K-14 would deliver tracks less loud than other commercial tracks IN THIS GENRE, so it's really where do yuo want to play in the loudness war. Where the trick is to get as loud as possible without any noticable artifacts from compression / distortion |
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| mize |
| quote: |
Also needed to get my hands on some better softsynths, as analogue is still outta da question atm. (Which I've just done with Sylenth1 and Massive)
I was using Poizone/Sytrus/Toxic Biohazard and a bit of Nexus + an old Roland analogue synth for anything phat. I tried my best to make due with what I had...
I do find it really hard working with sound that already starts out rough in the first place, so starting with nice phat sound that doesn't need alot of work has been a plus.
I have been indeed learning since Track2 though, and I've actually been getting alot more positive feedback on more recent mixes.
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Also a little tip, learn have to do your own sounds/presets.
There is a really good free ebook on this subject does anyone remember what the name is?
there is some really good books on Mixing and Mastering to
Here are two:
http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Audio-...86989094&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Aud...pd_bxgy_b_img_c
/M |
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| nortek |
| what the hell is k12/k14???:conf: :conf: |
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