Originally posted by stevö
your definition of house is lacking, because theres plenty of house that does not fit that mold you layed out. but you are right that house does not mean 128bpm.
The only house that is not based around what I described is a specific variation on the genre, such as hard house, or individually idiosyncratic records.
quote:
memorable can be caused from a number of factors, a big one is melody. if you had 10 tracks that all had 2 note melodies, and 10 tracks with 4 note melodies, which tracks will be easier to distinguish from each other and remember?
This is nonsense. You can have 32 note melodies that are utterly forgettable, you can have two-notes that are very memorable. There is more to a good hook than the number of notes, and what makes a strong hook is not quantifiable. It's a matter of taste.
I cannot remember the melody in the OP track at all. I don't find it remotely memorable. As I recall it was one of those idea-less trance melodies that noodles portentiously from note to note, yet I couldn't hum it to you.
I'd say the reason you don't get epic trance at 128bpm is because the high tempo is part of the crass stupidity. The whole mode of "epic trance" is everything in excess, everything glaringly obvious, everything overblown. The hammering, funkless bottom end is part of what makes epic trance so bloody annoying.
With that said, there is a night near me I regularly go to that plays a lot of euphoric progressive house and slower trance remixes. No end of breakdowns and uplifting melodies but at a danceable tempo and with chunky, funky bottom ends. As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what "trance house" should be. I'd link you some sets from the DJs, but I'm sure they won't be memorable (stupid) enough for your tastes.
Mr.Mystery
quote:
Originally posted by stevö
if epic trance at 128bpm is what im talking about than so be it, its still something you dont come across very often.
And for a reason.
Mr.Mystery
Then again, we've got tracks like this...
Light The Fuse
so would some of the old faithless stuff be what you are talking about?
ps just for the record i kind of agree with sys-j ('bad taste' may hav ebeen a poor choice of words tho')
srussell0018
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You can have 32 note melodies that are utterly forgettable, you can have two-notes that are very memorable.
I have to agree with this. As an example, this isn't the most complex melody in the world up until around 6:30, but I haven't been able to get it out of my head for the past few weeks...
Rodri Santos
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You can have 32 note melodies that are utterly forgettable, you can have two-notes that are very memorable.
truth, there are tracks like Stranger to stability or beachball that melody wise are so simple but ing catchy
Redd
quote:
Originally posted by Mr.Mystery
Then again, we've got tracks like this...
ace
and totally overlooked? I like all the tracks on that release
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if tranceaddict went offline you would need some level of professional psychological therapy to cope
Yeah not an insult at all, and a one at that.
stevö
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The only house that is not based around what I described is a specific variation on the genre, such as hard house, or individually idiosyncratic records.
This is nonsense. You can have 32 note melodies that are utterly forgettable, you can have two-notes that are very memorable. There is more to a good hook than the number of notes, and what makes a strong hook is not quantifiable. It's a matter of taste.
I cannot remember the melody in the OP track at all. I don't find it remotely memorable. As I recall it was one of those idea-less trance melodies that noodles portentiously from note to note, yet I couldn't hum it to you.
I'd say the reason you don't get epic trance at 128bpm is because the high tempo is part of the crass stupidity. The whole mode of "epic trance" is everything in excess, everything glaringly obvious, everything overblown. The hammering, funkless bottom end is part of what makes epic trance so bloody annoying.
With that said, there is a night near me I regularly go to that plays a lot of euphoric progressive house and slower trance remixes. No end of breakdowns and uplifting melodies but at a danceable tempo and with chunky, funky bottom ends. As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what "trance house" should be. I'd link you some sets from the DJs, but I'm sure they won't be memorable (stupid) enough for your tastes.
theres a problem with defining music in absolute terms. theres no hard and fast rules like melody containing more notes is more memorable, but it is a typical trait. "generally". like i said "more likely to remember". key word likely. sounds like your thinking memorable as in a good hook. i mean memorable as in a pattern that you can recall later and humm to. bad or good, bad taste or good taste, theres characteristics to describe one track compared to another. its hard to put into words, but the op's track is much different to my ears than most of what ive heard so far in anjunadeep and armada (is one a sublabel of the other? whatever).
your reason for why we dont hear epic trance at 128bpm is an interesting inside look into how you perceive the genre.
ive yet to hear someone explain convincingly why things are the way they are when it comes to genres. like why dance culture evolved into the genres we have today. my theory is in the late eighties and early nineties, there were no genres, it was just people making random styles of tracks at vastly different tempos. and then other people decided to copy one of those tracks and in the beginning infant stages you then had a set of maybe 5 or 6 similiar styled tunes at the same tempo that a dj could beatmatch together and a genre was born. since then, the momentum just kept going into these branched categories.
so why did the style and ideas of prog trance or classic trance never incorporate into house tempo? why did they all fall in the same general tempo range of trance? im guessing PARTLY the reason is: it was a momentum of productions set in motion from the very beginning when the first productions in that style and tempo were ever made and grouped together by djs. and with the risk and money commitment with releasing vinyl back then, it was better to play it safe to make sure there was a market for it by continuing along in that blueprint. prog trance at house tempo is rare because it never got started that way in the beginning in the first place.
i think the money risk factor played a major role why we have the genres we have today. it was a good thing and a bad thing. good because with continuous mix style djing, you dont NEED all tracks at similiar tempo but its damn near impossible without such regiment. bad because of the obvious beaten to death topic we all know which is how it causes producers to play it safe.
SYSTEM-J
quote:
Originally posted by stevö
so why did the style and ideas of prog trance or classic trance never incorporate into house tempo?
There's a lot of prog trance and classic trance at house tempo. We Came In Peace is at about 120bpm. Most of the prog trance I play today is at about 128bpm. Tempos change in genres all the time. Just look at how techno sped up and slowed down again over the last 30 years. Tastes change, drugs change, other genres have their influences.
srussell0018
quote:
Originally posted by stevö
anjunadeep and armada (is one a sublabel of the other? whatever).
Anjunadeep = Sub-label of A&B's Anjunabeats label
Rodri Santos
if you'd have said someone 15 years ago that techno would be at 125 bpm they'll surely laugh at you... and now is common. Truly changing, but uplifting trance below 133 bpm or so lose the little energy that the kick & bassline give to it.
stevö
quote:
Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
There's a lot of prog trance and classic trance at house tempo. We Came In Peace is at about 120bpm. Most of the prog trance I play today is at about 128bpm. Tempos change in genres all the time. Just look at how techno sped up and slowed down again over the last 30 years. Tastes change, drugs change, other genres have their influences.
there is? well then i havent dug deep enough. or it probably wasnt what i was looking for. i hear you and agree about techno changing tempo over the years. but did house ever do that? i think that was kind of unique to techno. dnb never really changed tempo much over the years. dubstep so far definitely has not. prog/classic trance pretty much always stayed in the same general tempo range.
i guess what i mean is the feeling and idea conveyed in some of the best trance songs over the years is hard to find in house. some random examples, the melody at 3:10 in solar stones - seven cities, the melody at 2:40 in solid globe - north pole, or the melody in greece 2000. those tracks are from 98-99, the peak of trance as a genre, err except for solid globe, but anyway, still stylistically very similiar. i shouldve been more specific from the start, im surprised youve been this patient so far with me. so ... what house tracks come closest to that?
