|
Thoughts on my new tracking front-end?
|
View this Thread in Original format
| cryophonik |
OK, after much research and testing of whatever I can find in my local stores, I've made some decisions and started buying some upgrades to my recording path. So, I'm looking at getting rid of my JoeMeek OneQ channel strip and some other gear/mics that aren't getting much use and replacing them with:
- SSL Xlogic Alpha Channel (preamp/channel strip w/digital out)
- Drawmer DL241 (or possibly dbx 1066) 2-ch Expander/Gate/Compressor/Limiter
- Mojave MA-200 tube condenser mic
Already purchased/own:
- Focusrite ISA One preamp
- Cascade Fat Head II ribbon mic
- AKG C414 XL-II condenser mic
I'm looking primarily for versatility, since I work with several different female singers with very different voices and styles, and record other instruments as well. Both the ISA One and the SSL have plenty of gain for the FHII ribbon mic, so mixing/matching the various mics with the two pres and their various features (e.g., variable impedance, EQ, VHD, etc.) should give me a pretty good range of applications.
Anybody had any experience with the Drawmer DL241? I've used the dbx 1066 on many occasions (for live use) and it was good, but the reviews are telling me that the DL241 is better, primarily in the expander department. That's the primary reason I want one of those two units. The individual channels will be used as the insert path for each of the preamps, primarily for reducing background noise when tracking via the downward expander (I don't have an iso booth) and occasionally for limiting. The compressor will possibly get some light use as well, but I have better software compressors that I will use during mixing, or when I want to add some color. I may also pick up a dedicated hardware "color compressor" down the road at some point, but for now, I'll primarily rely on tracking clean and adding color ITB.
RANN? Jupiter? Anybody else who has used any of these models? Any reason to talk me out of this decision? I would ask opinions over at gearslutz, but they hate anything that doesn't have a $2K or higher price tag and, even then, no one can agree on anything. :rolleyes: |
|
|
| Raphie |
| Went for a SE-Electronics 2200t Tube Mic, which i track through my Distressors, using the pre amp of my Steinberg MR816x, which works wonders for me. |
|
|
| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
using the pre amp of my Steinberg MR816x, which works wonders for me. |
+1
I love mine
Can't help you Dave i'm afraid, you're talking way obive my price point ;) |
|
|
| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
...i track through my Distressors,... |
That's one of the compressors I've got my eye on for adding some color. I'm thinking early next year for that. Glad to hear that you're liking it for tracking. Did you track the vox for the song that posted a few days ago through that same chain?
@Geoff - Yeah, I hear ya on price point. I decided a long time ago to curtail my studio spending, so I'm selling off gear to fund these., rather than go out-of-pocket. ;) |
|
|
| Raphie |
No, this was an SM57 in a livingroom of my mate.
For me the SE Electronics 2200t+ Distressor works wonders.
I am still investigating a premium pre-amp as well. But i am getting a bit confused on what people call pre-amps but are actually mono compressors / EQ's with a mic level input.
So for me a pre-amp would be a box, which i would stick inbetween my Steinbergs pre-amp and my mic. and then this needs to sound a whole lot better than the mic directly on the pre-amp/converter, where the distressor then levels before i print to disk
So which pre-amps are REALLY making a difference in the chain, compared to the converters/interface pre amp? |
|
|
| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
But i am getting a bit confused on what people call pre-amps but are actually mono compressors / EQ's with a mic level input.
|
Those are usually called channel strips. My OneQ and the SSL Alpha Channel (which I ended up buying already, btw) are both channel strips. They're usually a mic preamp with several other dynamics and/or frequency processors built-in (e.g., compressor, limiter, EQ, de-esser, enhancer, gate/expander). Preamps are generally just units that boost the microphone signal to line level. |
|
|
| Mad for Brad |
I think you are spending money on things that matter the least
I would say in order of importance
Singer
Room
microphone
pre amp
Unless you are making intimate music where the vocals are smack dab in the mix taking all the room , you can probably get professional results with an sm57, your soundcards preamp and a good singer. If it was good enough for freddy mercury, it is good enough you. Although I think he used the 58.
I think you're GAS is acting up. |
|
|
| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
Unless you are making intimate music where the vocals are smack dab in the mix taking all the room , |
I am. I produce a lot of different styles myself and I handle the recording and production for other people as well, many of whom are doing more intimate indie/folky songwriter stuff.
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
you can probably get professional results with an sm57, your soundcards preamp and a good singer. If it was good enough for freddy mercury, it is good enough you. Although I think he used the 58. |
Yeah, you can absolutely get great results with a good dynamic mic, but I'm not recording Freddy Mercury and neither are the millions of other recording engineers out there who prefer a good condenser to a dynamic mic. Besides, I've owned a lot of SM57s, SM58s, SM87s (beta and standard models) - they're great for live use and for handling high SPLs, but they don't capture the detail that condensers do. But, if you or anyone else likes to record with dynamic mics, knock yourself out.
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
I think you're GAS is acting up. |
Obviously. ;) |
|
|
| DJ RANN |
Peronsonally, I'd go with the Drawmer, which I've used a few times for spoken word (voice over and radio interviews). It's really very neautral apart from when you cane it to the extreme, then it gets a bit funky.
it's no going to give you any color though, so if that's what you're after it's no the unit to buy, but if you want a really solid clean and smooth gate then I highly recommend it and it's well worth the money.
it's nice because it will smooth out any weird jumps or transients and doesn't sound like cheap gates where you can hear the thing open and close because they have internal noise. You can expand on the drawmer nicely becuase it has very low noise but again, don't push it - it works well within it's limits but get's unusable when you really push it.
The alpha channel is wicked - Only heard recordings of it once (PTHD) but it sounded very clear. There's a really cool thing you can do if you'r using the digital outs: L channel is unaffected (pre insert) and R is after the eq limiter so you can take both to "tape".
Bear in mind it's SPDIF though.
I can't really say anything more than I already have on the subject of the Mojave Tube. Don't get me wrong the FHII is a lovely mic but if I had to reach forone mic for vox and the budget was under $1000, the MA200 would win nearly every time. A great setup would be to have those mics next to each other at the beginning of a session and decide which one works better for that singer. The 414 is then just a nice 3rd option to change it up if need be. But the Mojave works on acoustic guitar too so it really is versatile.
My only wodk of caution with combining the alpha channel and the Drawmer is it's going to be clean. Very Clean (which is a good thing) but you may need to have something in the back pocket to warm it up for vocalist with thin or brittle voices (whne you don't want that effect).
Distressor springs to mind but so does a shadow hills mastering compressor :D
Basically, the Mojave (or fathead depending on application) in to the Alpha Channel with the drawmer as an insert would be superb.
If you can't get a nice recording on that, then it's your singer that needs replacing. |
|
|
| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Peronsonally, I'd go with the Drawmer, which I've used a few times for spoken word (voice over and radio interviews). It's really very neautral apart from when you cane it to the extreme, then it gets a bit funky.
it's no going to give you any color though, so if that's what you're after it's no the unit to buy, but if you want a really solid clean and smooth gate then I highly recommend it and it's well worth the money.
it's nice because it will smooth out any weird jumps or transients and doesn't sound like cheap gates where you can hear the thing open and close because they have internal noise. You can expand on the drawmer nicely becuase it has very low noise but again, don't push it - it works well within it's limits but get's unusable when you really push it. |
That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. I really want an expander that works smoothly and doesn't get jittery when the vocalist trails off on long notes, etc. And I am definitely looking for a clean/transparent sound between the various preamps and compressor.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
The alpha channel is wicked - Only heard recordings of it once (PTHD) but it sounded very clear. There's a really cool thing you can do if you'r using the digital outs: L channel is unaffected (pre insert) and R is after the eq limiter so you can take both to "tape".
Bear in mind it's SPDIF though. |
Thanks for that tip. And, it's definitely reassuring to hear that you like the SSL.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I can't really say anything more than I already have on the subject of the Mojave Tube....But the Mojave works on acoustic guitar too so it really is versatile. |
I had a feeling you'd approve of the MA200. :)
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
My only wodk of caution with combining the alpha channel and the Drawmer is it's going to be clean. Very Clean (which is a good thing) but you may need to have something in the back pocket to warm it up for vocalist with thin or brittle voices (whne you don't want that effect).
Distressor springs to mind but so does a shadow hills mastering compressor :D |
Yeah, clean is what I'm after here, but as I mentioned, will be looking to add something for warmth/color in the near future. The Distressor will possibly be in my price range (assuming preowned) as are a few others that I've been looking into (e.g., Summit, Daking), but I think the Shadow Hills stuff is probably a little too expensive for me to justify for this purpose. Do they even make anything under $4K?! |
|
|
| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Yeah, clean is what I'm after here, but as I mentioned, will be looking to add something for warmth/color in the near future. The Distressor will possibly be in my price range (assuming preowned) as are a few others that I've been looking into (e.g., Summit, Daking), but I think the Shadow Hills stuff is probably a little too expensive for me to justify for this purpose. Do they even make anything under $4K?! |
Personally, I go as clean to tape as possible but I know some like to record the effect printed as part of the tracking. I like the fact it can do both and does the "clean" so damn well. All a little color to taste and you really have a true pro class front end there.
And yes, the SH compressor is $6000 and they don;t do discounts.
BTW, was DAC are you currently using dave? |
|
|
| kitphillips |
Erm... pardon my ignorance, but why are you doing the expansion before you've done the recording?
I always thought that it was best to just do compression while tracking and leave all other effects for after - in which case you can probably do them in software? Unless you simply don't believe that you can get a good gate/expander in software that is.
Again, sorry if I've missed something there...
If I was putting together a dream tracking setup, I'd go an API 500 rack with a shadow kills pre and a couple of different comps. I probably wouldn't focus that much attention on expanders and gates though, or all in one units, since I think they offer less flexibility than a collection of a few different bits and pieces. But I think I mentioned that before, and I'm not really speaking from experience, so meh. Grain of salt and all that. |
|
|
|
|
