|
The tools and techniques of modern dance music. (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Sonic_c |
Hey guys thanks for all your ideas some of them really have made me think differently about how to go about this.
I had a meeting today with my tutor (Dr Peter Lennox) and he is the guy ok'ing my proposal for this project. Basically after me explaining what I wanted to know he said that I cant just ask you guys what you use, then why you use it, and then say thats a good way to do it. That approach wont get me a first class degree or probably even a second.
He said many producers will use something because that sounds 'good' or suits their style but my focus should be not what you use and why you 'think' you use it, that is my preliminary research. My paper should focus on what those tools and techniques do to our (the listeners) perception of the sound and why? So for example why specifically does eq'ing a vocal at a certain freq but not necessarily changing the volume make it clearer to us? What is happening to us psychologically when tension between drum elements adds groove etc?
Sooo deeper than I initially thought I would have to go but interesting nevertheless.
So would really like to hear things like if you use a transient shaper to sharpen up the attack of a drum, why do you do that? and what effect do you think its having?
Then I can go away and try to discover what effect it actually has on the listener and try to turn this into an interesting paper.
I will put it online if anyone is interested to know the result at the end of next term....I will tell you the Grade too :nervous:
Oh I am going to focus in on House and Trance EDM in general like some said is far too large.
Thanks again |
|
|
| Richard Butler |
Sonic, the reason I say things like searching for just the right verb are a key focu for me is because of the subliminal effect this has when presented to the listener without them knowing why - IF I do the job well, that is.
So for example just bthe right type and amount of verb on the higher portion of kick will add a prescence and energy to some tracks, that when taken away leaves quite a hole.
Thats why I personaly didn't think the whole history of JP whatevers would be of relevance particularly.
Similarly on my softsynth comment, I'm thinking certain unusual hardware synths recorded with lots of knob tweaking on the synth can if your lucky lead to a ONE OFF sound - and thats important as the listeners ears will generally prick up to something new.
So where I was using classic softsynth (and hardsynth) plucks I kept personaly thinking nthey were well established sounds that wouldn't impact on the listener as something a little different, so might just wash over them.
In summary I'd say the esscence of life experience is bound up with 'new tastes, new ideas and new sounds'. Simply reaching fro trance plucks in this sense could therefore perhaps be a little limited.
No I'm not saying anyone does that, I'm just trying to give you my DEEPER insights for what little they might be worth.
Many guys here have better ideas than me though, so I'm under no millusion I'm some sorta genious pushing at the boundaries!! |
|
|
| Sonic_c |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
Sonic, the reason I say things like searching for just the right verb are a key focu for me is because of the subliminal effect this has when presented to the listener without them knowing why - IF I do the job well, that is.
So for example just bthe right type and amount of verb on the higher portion of kick will add a prescence and energy to some tracks, that when taken away leaves quite a hole.
Thats why I personaly didn't think the whole history of JP whatevers would be of relevance particularly.
Similarly on my softsynth comment, I'm thinking certain unusual hardware synths recorded with lots of knob tweaking on the synth can if your lucky lead to a ONE OFF sound - and thats important as the listeners ears will generally prick up to something new.
So where I was using classic softsynth (and hardsynth) plucks I kept personaly thinking nthey were well established sounds that wouldn't impact on the listener as something a little different, so might just wash over them.
In summary I'd say the esscence of life experience is bound up with 'new tastes, new ideas and new sounds'. Simply reaching fro trance plucks in this sense could therefore perhaps be a little limited.
No I'm not saying anyone does that, I'm just trying to give you my DEEPER insights for what little they might be worth.
Many guys here have better ideas than me though, so I'm under no millusion I'm some sorta genious pushing at the boundaries!! |
Thank you so much for taking an interest.
OK so you choose analogue because you prefer it.. but specifically you like creating or editing a patch because you believe that peoples experience of listening to your treacks will be changed/improved if they can pick out a sound they may never have heard before?
Also you like adding the right amount of reverb to the higher freq of a kick because you think it adds presence that wouldnt have been there otherwise?
Thats interesting so straight away I have a few questions for me to think about around what terminology you used. I can think about things like (just quickly) why does adding that reverb give the kick presence in your tracks? (and what is actually happening in the brain when something seems to have more presence?) Does the introduction of totally new sounds to a listener improve or change the experience? etc etc
Thanks mate the more of these I can get the more direction I will have in research :] |
|
|
| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
OK so you choose analogue because you prefer it.. but specifically you like creating or editing a patch because you believe that peoples experience of listening to your treacks will be changed/improved if they can pick out a sound they may never have heard before?
Also you like adding the right amount of reverb to the higher freq of a kick because you think it adds presence that wouldnt have been there otherwise?
|
I find with my little analogue baby I can tweak lots of knobs that do very unexpected weird things and this allows me to stumble on slight nuances I've not heard before. I've just posted a WIP in the production section where I think the analogue lead sounds like it's been played through a trumpet and this is the type of thing I'm on about.
That's not to say I cou;dn't find unique weird tones in software, but for me PERSONLAY I am finding a better harvest with analogue.
I worry this will start the usual flame war, hopefuly not though.
So it's about trying to find a very individual tone - thats the goal.
As for verb on kicks, for ages I'd wondered how some producers kciks somehow had a subbtle prescence not found in any sample packs I've ever bought and over time I found some pro kicks I really liked had subbtle room type reverb on the higher kick part. So even as someone in the game, I didn't at first know why thier kicks sounded better, but it just did and only over time did my ears work out it was due to this small room verb.
Now as to why that is - over to you....... cause I aint got a clue. Maybe it's because we evolved in caves and forests where verbs were part of the sonic landscape, ha! |
|
|
| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sonic_c
Hey guys thanks for all your ideas some of them really have made me think differently about how to go about this.
I had a meeting today with my tutor (Dr Peter Lennox) and he is the guy ok'ing my proposal for this project. Basically after me explaining what I wanted to know he said that I cant just ask you guys what you use, then why you use it, and then say thats a good way to do it. That approach wont get me a first class degree or probably even a second.
He said many producers will use something because that sounds 'good' or suits their style but my focus should be not what you use and why you 'think' you use it, that is my preliminary research. My paper should focus on what those tools and techniques do to our (the listeners) perception of the sound and why? So for example why specifically does eq'ing a vocal at a certain freq but not necessarily changing the volume make it clearer to us? What is happening to us psychologically when tension between drum elements adds groove etc?
Sooo deeper than I initially thought I would have to go but interesting nevertheless.
So would really like to hear things like if you use a transient shaper to sharpen up the attack of a drum, why do you do that? and what effect do you think its having?
Then I can go away and try to discover what effect it actually has on the listener and try to turn this into an interesting paper.
I will put it online if anyone is interested to know the result at the end of next term....I will tell you the Grade too :nervous:
Oh I am going to focus in on House and Trance EDM in general like some said is far too large.
Thanks again |
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=580691
This might be of interest to you. I came at the subject of dance music from the standpoint of novelty vs repetition. |
|
|
| DjStephenWiley |
Good fact here that sounds like something your professor is wanting.
A low pass filter is almost always preferred because the mind can psychological fill in frequencies in front of a sound so you can get away with more. It cannot do this with a high pass filter.
Always thought that was really neat. |
|
|
| Mad for Brad |
| preferred to what ? Your mind only generates overtones of actual timbres. not an entire track. And the same works for highpass, You mind will generate the fundamental. Again how is this related to EDM specifically. |
|
|
| G-Con |
I can't help but feel that coming on here and asking people why they use certain tools or apply certain techniques is not the right way to go about this.
And like Madforbrad has mentioned, nothing anyone has brought up so far is specific to dance music. This is all too general and vague imo. |
|
|
| RichieV |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
he is writing an academic paper. Reverb was used a long time before EDM and really I don't see how you can claim it is intrinsic to EDM. For academic papers, you need to base your self somewhere in history and you should have a rather specific topic or your paper will fizzle. Talking about generic effects or processes that every genre uses will not make your paper very interesting.
That is why I recommend the historical approach because you can definitely make the claim that EDM producers had certain production tools. You will also find published literature that academia will deem worthy which unfortunately you will have to tie in somehow. You will also have the cultural bag if you need a few filler pages. Talk about why these tools were the ones they used and why it happened.
Either narrow it down to a genre or something more specific because as it stands, you not only have to define what is EDM which in itself is not so simple but you also need to make reference to all dance music ever made from the beginning up till now.
So what I suggest, pick a time frame, pick a genre and work outward. |
totally agree. YOu are one smart attractive cookie. I bet your hair is soft like Italian cashmere |
|
|
| Sonic_c |
Hi guys.... sorry for late reply major busy with University 3rd year is hard dudes!!
I found that too because I went to look for information and realised I dont know where to start because I dont know where I am going with it....
I have a tutorial in an hour and will be back hopefully with some direction. It may even be interesting for some of you when its done (wishful thinking that anything I write could be remotely academic or interesting but hey) So this thread will pop up throughout the next year and hopefully end with a link to a good paper :)
Thanks again |
|
|
| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by RichieV
totally agree. YOu are one smart attractive cookie. I bet your hair is soft like Italian cashmere |
I bet his pubes are like jagged razor blades. |
|
|
| vikernes |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
You could maybe approach it from the perspective of EDM producers abusing low end consumer gear, maybe look at it from the perspective of poor people using cheap tools innovatively to create interesting music.
Then you could tie together the whole 303/808 thing to the JP8080 thing. How dance music has always been shaped by the tools that were available to its producers.
Also how changing availability of tools has affected the sound, so for example why acid house is not longer so popular - its too expensive to get a 303. Maybe finish with an assessment of the impact of ableton or some other such live performance gear on the scene, and try to analyse what might happen in future. |
I would go with this. So you can go from 303 (house) to 8080 (eurodance) to PCs used for production (IDM/glitch) to virus (trance) to ableton etc... And each of these tools either gave birth to a genre or is unique to it. For ableton I'll say it's pretty unique to modern electro house and dubstep aka skrillex, (late) deadmaus and others. When PCs started powerful enough for music production Autechre started using it for things not available before (ie granular synthesis/effects, computer generated music etc).
I'd go this way. Hell, you can even throw fruity loops in there. It pretty much put producing dance music into everyone's reach.
Also, someone mentioned sidechaining; I'd definitely put that in there. I don't know when it was actually invented or anything, but I'm pretty sure most people first heard it when Satisfaction came out. And ever since then, it's been abused by pretty much every genre :) |
|
|
|
|
