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The "I support scrapping transit city" thread
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View this Thread in Original format
| Jayx1 |
So I sent a message to all councillors and MPPs in Toronto with the following:
As a Torontonian and TTC user, I am happy that Mayor Rob Ford wants to put an end to the Transit City Light Rail plan and start up the subway trains after his first day in office.
Residents of Toronto desperately need accessible transit to get around our city. Facts prove that Light Rail vehicles - not subways - are inefficient, slow and cumbersome. Streetcars and LRVs cause congestion and create traffic backups that lead to increased emissions of greenhouse gasses. Replacing carbon-emitting buses with subways will also reduce emissions, leading to cleaner air to breathe and reduced healthcare costs.
Facts also show that subways cost far more and take much longer to build, which is why we should have started building them 30 years ago. However, it's not too late to start today.
At the end of the day,Transit City is a stop gap solution that is a temporary fix to a long term problem . I strongly urge you, as city councillors representing our best interests, to bring this matter up for a vote in city council on Dec 16th.
I also urge MPPs who represent Toronto to be advocates for accessible public transit and our new mayor to implement the mandate that he was elected with by a wide margin of votes on Oct 25th.
Mayor Ford declared that the war on cars is over, which is why it makes sense to put mass transit underground where it will not take up precious surface space and cause undue congestion. |
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| Jayx1 |
Councillor Grimes has already replied:
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Reply from councillor Grimes:
Dear Mr. Jay-X1, (i changed it from my actual name for the purpose of TA)
Thank you for your comments
The Mayor has indicated that the City of Toronto will be moving forward with a comprehensive citywide transportation plan for all facets of transportation. The decision is to ensure that any plan for public transit is part of the larger transportation plan and compliments all modes of transportation.
I will continue to work towards a public transit plan that meets the needs of our unique and growing community. This plan will be presented at Council. I will be carefully reviewing the proposals to ensure the needs of Ward 6 and the City of Toronto are met.
Mark Grimes
City Councillor Ward 6
Councillor Mark Grimes' Office
Ward 6, Etobicoke Lakeshore
City Hall
100 Queen Street West, Suite C48
Toronto, ON M5H 2N2
Tel: 416-397-9273 Fax: 416-397-9279 |
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| The Highroller |
Subway systems are prohibitively expensive. Last time they made a plan to expand the subway network in a significant way, they ran out of money, and the costs ballooned out of control. They only did the Sheppard line, and failed to do many other of the expansions that they promised to do.
Ford is a fool for doing this. He emphasizes the importance of clearing the congestion of our roads, but he scraps a plan that has already been started, and that is almost completely funded by the federal and provincial government.
If he does this, not only is public transit network expansion going to be put back several years, we are going to be penalized heavily for the contracts already in place, the money we've put into it so far will have been wasted, and we will shoot ourselves in the foot re: future funding for public transportation from provincial and federal governments.
If every time we have a new mayor, they scrap the previous transit plan and come up with a new one just so that they can call the project theirs, nothing will ever get done.
I have called my city Councillor about this and expressed my extreme concern about the folly in this decision. Councillors opposed to Rob Ford's recent actions are trying to compile a list of email addresses to develop a public campaign to save Transit City.
For those who use public transit or drive, I suggest you call your city Councillor and Rob Ford right away about this. If he stops this, our roads will become more and more congested, the development of our transit system will stagnate, and there will be much more pollution. |
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| Time2Burn |
For someone who ran a platform on stopping waste the first day he is Mayor he flushes 130 Mil down the drain.
Oh yeah. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Time2Burn
For someone who ran a platform on stopping waste the first day he is Mayor he flushes 130 Mil down the drain.
Oh yeah. |
how do u know he wont just put the whole LRT under eglinton instead of part of it? And building subway like stations for it? Thats what im betting on. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
Subway systems are prohibitively expensive. Last time they made a plan to expand the subway network in a significant way, they ran out of money, and the costs ballooned out of control. They only did the Sheppard line, and failed to do many other of the expansions that they promised to do.
Ford is a fool for doing this. He emphasizes the importance of clearing the congestion of our roads, but he scraps a plan that has already been started, and that is almost completely funded by the federal and provincial government.
If he does this, not only is public transit network expansion going to be put back several years, we are going to be penalized heavily for the contracts already in place, the money we've put into it so far will have been wasted, and we will shoot ourselves in the foot re: future funding for public transportation from provincial and federal governments.
If every time we have a new mayor, they scrap the previous transit plan and come up with a new one just so that they can call the project theirs, nothing will ever get done.
I have called my city Councillor about this and expressed my extreme concern about the folly in this decision. Councillors opposed to Rob Ford's recent actions are trying to compile a list of email addresses to develop a public campaign to save Transit City.
For those who use public transit or drive, I suggest you call your city Councillor and Rob Ford right away about this. If he stops this, our roads will become more and more congested, the development of our transit system will stagnate, and there will be much more pollution. |
And every other major city in the world has been able to build subways and continue to, and we cant because.......? |
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| patpicos |
| the thing that amazed me regarding the LRT is 26 stops in 12 kms.....thats a lot of stops. versus 8 subway stops. |
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| CMR |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
And every other major city in the world has been able to build subways and continue to, and we cant because.......? |
"Every other city" also builds LRT. LRT & subways serve different purposes. Subways are necessary for high-capacity routes in high-density areas, like for a Downtown relief line (under King or Queen, connecting to Bloor-Danforth) or perhaps Eglinton. LRT is useful for more suburban streets that exceed bus capacity but don't meet subway levels of transit use (such as Sheppard, Don Mills, and Jane).
A proper transit system uses both, where appropriate. And while Transit City isn't perfect, it does a hell of a lot more to improve transit service in Toronto than one little 8 km subway line in the suburbs.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
Residents of Toronto desperately need accessible transit to get around our city. Facts prove that Light Rail vehicles - not subways - are inefficient, slow and cumbersome. Streetcars and LRVs cause congestion and create traffic backups that lead to increased emissions of greenhouse gasses. |
LRT does not cause congestion - in fact, it results in a smoother traffic flow than buses, because it runs in a dedicated right-of-way, separate from auto traffic.
And no, they're not "inefficient, slow and cumbersome", thats baseless hyperbole.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
how do u know he wont just put the whole LRT under eglinton instead of part of it? And building subway like stations for it? Thats what im betting on. |
Thats retarded, and completely defeats the purpose. If the whole thing were to be built underground, then might as well go all the way and build it to higher-capacity subway standards at little extra cost. However, the advantage of the current arrangement is that it can be underground in the central portion where density and traffic congestion are the highest, and move seamlessly above ground in the suburbs where the streets are wide enough to accommodate an LRT ROW. |
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| exraver |
| quote: | | Streetcars and LRVs cause congestion and create traffic backups that lead to increased emissions of greenhouse gasses. |
WTF are you talking about?
This is Queensway after repairs for streetcars to have right of the way, where the hell do you see traffic and pollution?
If you anything, it's bunch of people in cars creating traffic and pollution, meanwhile streetcars are zipping by fully loaded.
Get your facts straight. |
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| -g- |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
how do u know he wont just put the whole LRT under eglinton instead of part of it? And building subway like stations for it? Thats what im betting on. |
and what does this have to do with anything?
it still means flushing 130 mil down the drain in contract cancellation fees. |
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| smuncky |
LRT can't work because they run on gravy. and since rob ford is stopping the flow of gravy, the LRT plans have to go.
cmon guys, it's not rocket science. |
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| smuncky |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
As a Torontonian and TTC user |
i thought you've always maintained the position that you take the car and not the TTC because it's awful and horrible? so were you just lying? or are you lying in your email?
oh, and could you also provide some info about your facts here. mostly some sources.
-Facts prove that Light Rail vehicles - not subways - are inefficient, slow and cumbersome.
-Streetcars and LRVs cause congestion and create traffic backups
thanks jay. |
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