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Could use some criticism between mixes (pg. 2)
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| DJ Robby Rox |
I don't hear the click in the kick anymore so I think you definitely fixed that.
You seem to be having the same exact issues I do as this is essentially a carbon copy of the style I go for. The hardest part about layered to death trance is defining individual sounds. Like everything in this track sounds nice, but it also sounds like its suffocating.
It also seems like you try to compensate for your bass by always having some sort of elaborate melody playing over it or sometimes even a more subtle sound pitching up in down over the bass. I like your tracks a lot and always have, but I think you need to work on really defining sounds.
First, the melody that comes in at 1:40 takes away more from the track than it adds. Its too neurotic sounding and not even a pleasing melody to listen to afaic. I think you could do by taking it out completely and adding something to the bass, or putting a more plucky sound instead with a lot of delay. I just do no like that sound one bit though its really what killed the track for me.
I hear a sub which sounds good but again its not locking right in the mix, it sounds wobbly and I think you should lower it/isolate it a bit better.
Your percussion is layered to death and I'm not sure what you're doing, if you're using loops or individual sounds, but you need more simple percussion that does more for the groove. It sounds like you have a thousand closed hihats playing at once, just kind of moving along but wheres the groove? Have some sort of interplay and keep them simple.
At 43 seconds kill that sub, the timing sounds off, I'm not sure why, but when the real sub comes in it sounds much better. I would just remove that whole introduction sub phase or fix the timing, but it just takes away too much from the track and I couldn't stop focusing on why it sounded so off.
Now, as far as seperation goes I think you're messing up a lot of clarity by whatever you're doing with your percussion. I know you want a nice thick rich percussion sound, but you're not using your hats efficiently. They're murdering all your other mid/hi frequency sounds. Some people like to keep hats centered, I don't, especially with this type of music you don't need to. Pan some hats hard left, pan some other hats hard right. Seperate them in their own stereo field how are they sitting in this track? Are they all centered? You may have entirely too many sounds in that same region.
And bro you work on Fruity right?
I know you hate me but if you ever wanna send me an FLP of your track I can go in on a project level and give you better advice. I've said before you make better music than I do (as far as arrangement/ideas not sound quality) but you're also making a lot of the same exact mistakes I am, so I do think I can help you in that respect. At any rate being as though you have the arrangment process somewhat down, I'd take some time off finishing tracks maybe and focus 100% on how to seperate your sounds.
People propose lots of on this forum like what instruments to equalize at what frequency, but I found sometimes you need to really break those rules. If I have a percussion thats intefering with my clap, and need both those frequency ranges each element, I do a trade off between them thats hard to explain. But I basically equalize them in a way where none of the frequencies clash, but half of the original frequencies I needed from each are taken away. You get this to work really by having the right sound source, and certain sounds you can't do this to. So if you're ever trying to seperate sounds and can't, try changing samples completely.
Anyway good job keep it up. In another year or 2 I wanna hear some blueman styled basslines coming from your tracks. =] |
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| Andy28 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
In another year or 2 I wanna hear some blueman styled basslines coming from your tracks. =] |
Will it take that long to hear one of your tracks robby? :toothless
had a listen just on laptop speakers, agree with robby on that sound that comes around 1 40ish, it don't sound right, the pattern is probs ok but you need to change the sound. Not to sure on the bass that fully comes in around the minute mark, could just be my speakers though.. Love the little piano jingle sounds cool, nice touch |
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| Kysora |
Thanks Robbie, guess you're not such a tool after all. I'm not too keen on the idea of sending you an FLP, just personal preference, but thanks for the offer.
This track was made from beginning to end between the hours of 11:30 to 5:30 in the morning inspired by a variety of substances, and the new mix was taken directly from the first version. There are a huge mess of issues and all I tried to do was clean them up as best as I could. I'm still happy with the result but hopefully I can make a better attempt tonight when I try reworking September Love from the ground up.
Here's hoping I impress you guys. I'm trying here, I really am. |
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| Andy28 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kysora
Here's hoping I impress you guys. I'm trying here, I really am. |
You do, can't fault you on your creativity, you write some good stuff. |
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| Beatflux |
The percs really kind of over shadow the nice pads in the beginning.
2:29 The transition sounds too abrupt
The low fi synth sounds really out of place.(comes in at the end of the breakdown)
The pacing during the intro actually slows down. The first minute has faster pacing, than the 2nd minute of the intro.
As far as what I enjoyed: I did like the beginning of the track, but I never felt like the track really went somewhere, and then came home. |
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| DJ Robby Rox |
Yeh I noticed that Kysora finishes tracks no matter what and that alone is commendable.
Its also another reason I'm following him no matter what because its not like watching paint dry like my own situation. The cool thing about him is I actually see him going somewhere with his music. I'm not sure where lol but he has a brand, he has a head full of ideas, and I'm sure its gonna result in something one day.
He also motivated me a lot to get my own together, so its good to have ambitous producers like him on this board. As crazy as it sounds I've learned more from him then M4B alone, just through transference of his work ethics online. The guy is ALWAYS working on new projects which allows me to take my head out of the sand from time to time and realize its much more about music and creativity then going OCD over every single aspect of your flaws.
Like I said keep it up man. |
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| Kysora |
Thanks guys. As far as me constantly finishing my tracks, I've explained that before. I spend hours upon hours working on the main progression and melodies of a track before I even pick a kick sample. I refuse to start producing a song unless I have ~80% of it written already, and at that point I usually think the track has enough potential to not want to scrap it.
I'm glad you see an improvement in all of my tracks, I think I notice it too and that's what really keeps me producing all the time. It's literally my favorite thing to do so I'd rather just have a blast doing it than try and overanalyze all of my flaws. I'll probably never be a hallmark producer with that kind of work ethic but I know for a fact I'm having more fun than most people do when they work on music, and I figure that interest alone will generate enough practice time to get good eventually. I'm only 19, I'm not in any rush.
Not to say I don't want to improve, but I'm happy with where I'm at, especially considering my soundcard came with my Dell in 2004, I produce entirely on a pair of K701's and I don't have anything but a pirated copy of FL and some VSTi's to work with. Back before I got the K701's I just used some SR60's and my biggest problem a year or two ago was lower freq muddiness. I've fixed that for the most part just for the simple fact that I can hear it better with my new headphones. I don't want to make excuses but I honestly think I don't have the tools to hear all of the nuances that keep coming up over and over again with my tracks. Some things you guys say I'm constantly doing wrong, I literally can't even hear while looking for them. I seriously can't wait to upgrade my equipment so I can hear how bad my music's been sounding up until then, haha
I'm already starting to think my rework of September Love will turn out better. I'm using much, much less compression on it and I just spent an hour on the percussion alone, it's the first time I've made a percussion track without loops in like 2 years, haha. Here's hoping.
Thanks again for the encouragement. You guys are awesome when you want to be. |
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| Atlantis-AR |
Mixes shouldn't be post-processed, else they become masters...
Only listening to the re-work here, but work on clarifying up your bass range. Make EQ cuts especially below around 40 Hz. The mix sounds muddy, compressed and cloudy. A lot of good advice has already been given, but seriously look into getting some monitors. I know they're only going to be as good as your ears but you should be able to hear a lot more... |
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| Mad for Brad |
I would add that although it sounds compressed, you don't have many options when dealing with so many elements. I do think compression is essential for busy mixes along with volume automation. You really have to mind your dynamics so that things don't get out of control. The trick is to compress and compress but use conservative settings. Even orchestral recordings use compression when the orchestration is extremely dense. I would say compress lots but do it conservatively and understand why you are compressing a bus or track. For example, if you have 2 melodies that are sort of at the same degree of importance, you dont want one overplaying the other. I suppose if you have lots of time, you can automate everything but adding a little compression to elements you sort of want to keep at the same level is handy.
By the way, I would encourage making a diagram of your track and the parts and decide what is the forefront material and what is middle ground and what is background. It will help you be more objective. It happens often that you like all your parts and you want all of them to be heard well but the brain can really only deal with 2 separate elements at a time. So if you have 3 elements that don't mesh to form a single unit, you have 3 elements and that will not work so well. Maybe even use photoshop and use pretty colours. It will really make mixing easier.
Learning the skill of orchestration is probably one of the best ways to mix better. You learn to parse your track and put parts where they should go. It also makes you do a double check on the parts you have and whether something is needed. If you already have 2 lines in the forefront and then you have this synth that is trying to fight with them, you will recognize the problem and already think about solutions before actually mixing. Good arrangements is the first step to a good mix. |
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| Mise |
| quote: | [i]Learning the skill of orchestration is probably one of the best ways to mix better. You learn to parse your track and put parts where they should go. It also makes you do a double check on the parts you have and whether something is needed. If you already have 2 lines in the forefront and then you have this synth that is trying to fight with them, you will recognize the problem and already think about solutions before actually mixing. Good arrangements is the first step to a good mix.
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yes its really important, less time you spend changing things that are not working more you have to embellish section.. a months tune doesn't have the quality of a week one.. |
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| Kysora |
| Thanks for the advice. Compression is probably the most annoying thing to me right now, I'll figure it out eventually. I really do think getting proper monitors will help tons. My mixes could be a lot worse considering what little equipment I'm using. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mad for Brad
I would add that although it sounds compressed, you don't have many options when dealing with so many elements. I do think compression is essential for busy mixes along with volume automation. You really have to mind your dynamics so that things don't get out of control. The trick is to compress and compress but use conservative settings. Even orchestral recordings use compression when the orchestration is extremely dense. I would say compress lots but do it conservatively and understand why you are compressing a bus or track. For example, if you have 2 melodies that are sort of at the same degree of importance, you dont want one overplaying the other. I suppose if you have lots of time, you can automate everything but adding a little compression to elements you sort of want to keep at the same level is handy.
By the way, I would encourage making a diagram of your track and the parts and decide what is the forefront material and what is middle ground and what is background. It will help you be more objective. It happens often that you like all your parts and you want all of them to be heard well but the brain can really only deal with 2 separate elements at a time. So if you have 3 elements that don't mesh to form a single unit, you have 3 elements and that will not work so well. Maybe even use photoshop and use pretty colours. It will really make mixing easier.
Learning the skill of orchestration is probably one of the best ways to mix better. You learn to parse your track and put parts where they should go. It also makes you do a double check on the parts you have and whether something is needed. If you already have 2 lines in the forefront and then you have this synth that is trying to fight with them, you will recognize the problem and already think about solutions before actually mixing. Good arrangements is the first step to a good mix. |
Brad just said something useful. WHO DIDN'T WANT HIM AROUND?! |
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