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6/9 chords? (Warning: theory thread)
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| Kysora |
In case anyone knows it by any other name I'm talking about the chord on C that would go C-E-G-D-A.
Does anyone have any experience with 6/9 chords and how they fit into chord progressions? They sound beautiful and I really like trying to use them in progressions, but coming up with chords to follow them is always a challenge for me.
I know they're usually used as an alternative to the tonic, but I have to imagine there's something else they can substitute beyond that. When I typically write chord progressions I just stick with basic triads, maybe a 7th chord here or there, so having a chord that sounds much "fuller" than a triad like a 6/9 chord throws me off a bit, since any chord I follow it with just sounds weaker. Except maybe the tonic, but since the tonic triad is below the 6/9 chord to begin with it doesn't offer much for interesting harmonic writing, and since it's already supposed to substitute it.. yeah, I'm kind of lost. I know treating it as the tonic and following it with the fifth sounds nice, going from say C-E-G-D-A to B-D-G-D-G or D-G-D-B sounds okay but that's all I can ever think to do with them.
I know something as minimal as one chord depends a lot on context but I'm just wondering if anyone knows of any typical chords that can lead into or follow this chord, as I'm struggling to find any, and I'd really like to try and use it if I can. |
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| EddieZilker |
DAMN IT!!
I just closed Sonar and this would be so easy...
:whip: |
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| Mise |
talking about the C mayor, pentatonic scale. Lets say they are the bases of pop.rock.
Try adding also 7th and 9th chords if you think it sounds good.
Mayor sixth are happy, crafty. Minor six are are darker.
The problem with using only mayor triads is that you dont generate enough interest. Imagine a movie with any conflict, even in the discovery channel you got the conflict part.
Major triads are happy, minor are sad, major seventh delicate pretty.., minor seventh, introspective while dominant seventh are "sassy".
Trust your own taste, and feel free to play with melodies! |
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| cryophonik |
Lush chords like that often sound very good when they resolve through a pattern of chords that overlap with several of the notes (e.g., up or down in thirds). So, try something like:
C6 (add 9) > Emin7 > Amin7 (try adding a 9 as well) > Fmaj7 (add 9?)
Very nice progression. Not very trancey, though, if that's what you're looking for. Here's an example that I just played quickly (twice through the chord progression above) on my Kurzi:
C6-9 chord progression example |
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| Mise |
| nice cryo!, I would only finish the progression with a C mayor, instead of E. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mise
nice cryo!, I would only finish the progression with a C mayor, instead of E. |
Thanks Mise. It actually just ended on the original chord (i.e., C6(add9)), but yeah, a Cmaj triad would probably be the best place to resolve it. |
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| Kysora |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mise
Try adding also 7th and 9th chords if you think it sounds good.
Mayor sixth are happy, crafty. Minor six are are darker.
The problem with using only mayor triads is that you dont generate enough interest. Imagine a movie with any conflict, even in the discovery channel you got the conflict part.
Major triads are happy, minor are sad, major seventh delicate pretty.., minor seventh, introspective while dominant seventh are "sassy". |
Um.. thanks for the input, but did you read what I asked? Not to be a dick but I didn't mention anything about using only major triads, or writing in a pentatonic scale, and I didn't ask what intervals sound like.. kind of more interested in the theoretical use of a 6/9 chord in a progression.
Wow, that's beautiful. You're right, it doesn't sound much like a trance progression, but that doesn't exactly scare me as far as using it in a trance track. I really like the C69 to Em7, I never thought to try that. Ironically I didn't want to treat it like the tonic but I avoided trying the iii chord because it doesn't follow the tonic all that well.
I might actually use that progression, or at least part of it. Thanks pal |
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| Mise |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kysora
In case anyone knows it by any other name I'm talking about the chord on C that would go C-E-G-D-A.
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= pentatonic C mayor scale.
and, what do yo mean by theoretical use? Are you going to write an essay or a melody line?? |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kysora
I really like the C69 to Em7, I never thought to try that. Ironically I didn't want to treat it like the tonic but I avoided trying the iii chord because it doesn't follow the tonic all that well.
I might actually use that progression, or at least part of it. Thanks pal |
No problem. When you ignore all the harmonic extensions and just look at the root chords, it's a pretty simple and somewhat common progression:
I > iii > vi > IV
It's the added 6ths, 7ths, and 9ths that really add the lushness and make the progression come to life. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mise
= pentatonic C mayor scale.
and, what do yo mean by theoretical use? Are you going to write an essay or a melody line?? |
FYI - you guys are both right, but you're talking about two somewhat different things. Kysora is referring to a C major chord with an added 6th and 9th and is asking about how to work that chord into a progression of other chords, whereas it seems that you are talking about using the same notes (i.e., C pentatonic scale) as the basis for the entire melody line. |
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| Mise |
| yes right, indeed if you are using the pentatonic scale of C. You are including al the C D E G A chords 6,7,9,th major min, etc, etc, related to that scale, as alterations. |
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| Kysora |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mise
= pentatonic C mayor scale.
and, what do yo mean by theoretical use? Are you going to write an essay or a melody line?? |
I know the pentatonic C major scale is C-D-E-G-A, I'm not talking about about that. I can use a 6/9 chord while still using the 4th and 7th degrees in the scale. It's what I did for Vaani.
And I'm obviously talking about music theory. Telling me the difference between major/minor/etc and talking about "conflict" was kind of elementary and not what I asked at all
I still appreciate the feedback but it kind of felt like you either didn't read my first post or misread it completely. I'm talking about chord progressions and how to use this specific chord in them, you're talking about chords in an elementary sense and addressing things I didn't mention. That's all I'm saying.
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Anyway, so as I'm understanding it, are 6/9 chords just supposed to be used exactly as the triads I'm adding the extra two notes to? So, again in the key of C, if I use a 6/9 chord on the fifth and use G-B-D-A-E, I should treat that just like I would any other V chord?
I sort of felt like having those two notes forming a perfect fifth above the triad would allow you treat it as a different chord than just the triad beneath them. Maybe I was wrong. |
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