Second, I just completed this - the fourth track I've ever put together. I know it's not great, but I think it has potential. I like the melody and the breakdown, but it obviously doesn't sound professional - and why would it, I'm still a noob. So, realizing this, and that I have a long way to go, I would like as much advice on this as possible. I'd be pleasantly surprised if I got any good feedback, but what I would really appreciate is criticism and advice on how to get this sounding professional.
And if you check out the soundcloud link, there's a picture of my logic project too: http://soundcloud.com/imran-bhaloo/dj-imphatik-pres-bandit-hijack-the-spaceship-first-draft
My thoughts on the track are that:
1. The bass sounds fine.
2. I've sidechained too much.
3. The main melody sounds thin.
4. The intro riffs are too soft.
5. The breakdown needs to be more complex, with a few more pads and fx sounds.
I've attached a screenshot of the project in logic, because I worry that I may have too few layers and wanted your thoughts on it. I've basically got three layers of main melody, three layers of intro riffs, four of bass, two of strings, and three of chords, along with some other added effects and sweeps. I'm hoping that maybe by looking at my sequencing, some of you may be able to say something along the lines of "dude, you need like 8 layers of melody" or something.
Anyway, Sean Tyas did say (on Twitter) that the best way to get your track not noticed is to send out promos on Christmas day. While this is nowhere near a promo, I'm hoping some of you will have the time to check this out.
Thank you so much!
Notle
i think it has potential if you learn how to mix. I like the beat and melody and arrangement is pretty nice. You are right, everything sounds thin, so learn how to mix and use effects. breakdowns were pretty poor though...
Imu
quote:
Originally posted by Notle
i think it has potential if you learn how to mix. I like the beat and melody and arrangement is pretty nice. You are right, everything sounds thin, so learn how to mix and use effects. breakdowns were pretty poor though...
thank you :)
will do and will post it again when redone. very grateful for your feedback. cheers.
vikernes
OK, I gave it a quick listen. Here are my thoughts:
I'd agree with 1, 3 and 5.
I _really_ like the beat and the bass. Very nice groove and the kick is awesome. The melody sounds way too low and too thin compared to the beat and bass. I don't like the sound of the lead at all. I'd also up the snare or layer another clap on top of it. Also, I don't think you need 4 layers for a lead to make it fat; if a single layer would do it, why layer then? As far as your track is concerned I think you need a different lead patch. Because of the way the kick and the bass sound in your track you have a lot of room to put a really fat lead on top of it. Yet you put a very thin sounding whiny kinda lead which IMO doesn't fit at all. I think you have a little too much low energy when that kick-roll comes in. Maybe hipass just that part.
In fact you track reminds me of Leon Bolier - That Morning (Nifra remix), especially when you come out of the break. If I were you I'd put something like this after the break: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcBq...tailpage#t=230s
Or something along those lines. It would totally be more "groovy" and fir better in your beat.
Anyway, it's your track, those are my thoughts.
btw, is there any chance you could post the kick sample?
Imu
quote:
Originally posted by vikernes
OK, I gave it a quick listen. Here are my thoughts:
I'd agree with 1, 3 and 5.
I _really_ like the beat and the bass. Very nice groove and the kick is awesome. The melody sounds way too low and too thin compared to the beat and bass. I don't like the sound of the lead at all. I'd also up the snare or layer another clap on top of it. Also, I don't think you need 4 layers for a lead to make it fat; if a single layer would do it, why layer then? As far as your track is concerned I think you need a different lead patch. Because of the way the kick and the bass sound in your track you have a lot of room to put a really fat lead on top of it. Yet you put a very thin sounding whiny kinda lead which IMO doesn't fit at all. I think you have a little too much low energy when that kick-roll comes in. Maybe hipass just that part.
In fact you track reminds me of Leon Bolier - That Morning (Nifra remix), especially when you come out of the break. If I were you I'd put something like this after the break: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcBq...tailpage#t=230s
Or something along those lines. It would totally be more "groovy" and fir better in your beat.
Anyway, it's your track, those are my thoughts.
btw, is there any chance you could post the kick sample?
Hey there. Thank you so much for the feedback. I will definitely work on these tips. The kick sample is from the Total Trance Kicks pack from Zenhiser. I layered a low kick and a mid kick on EXS24. You should check it out, it's only $3 or something. Or, better yet, send me a private message with your e-mail and I'll just send the whole package over :)
Thank you once again!
Imu
also just listened to the bolier track. the piece after the breakdown is brilliant. i need to figure out how nifra does the drawback of the kick and the bass, but i'll try add something similar.
Atlantis-AR
Hey there. First off, your treble is awefully high. The hats start out almost painful, and that's only listening to an MP3. 10 kHz is where the most useable treble lies, and too much above this can become fatiguing, so roll off when necessary. My next suggestion is that if do you want to focus your treble that high, to have an equally balanced bottom end.
Moving on, the bass range starts out a little messy (the sound at 0:03 especially). I guess you've blended two sounds so try to EQ them so that their frequencies don't tread on each other. The off-beat transient sound also sounds quite loud, and it's always wise to roll the bass off on any sounds that don't need it. Also the noise in the kick doesn't help a clean sound.
The bass at 0:15 seems far too loud and boomy, but I'll go with it. And at 0:29 I hear you enter the main kick. Definitely far too loud and boomy for everything else, so you'll have to decide what you want to fill the bottom end and apply the necessary level and EQ.
The open hat is again quite high and thin. The clap is much better, but it doesn't have the impact it would were the rest of the mix up to par.
The bass at 0:58 adds equally loud low end as the kick, so level and EQ to bring it out, while having the different sounds fill their own frequency range. The mid range would benefit from this too. It takes practise to get right, and each mix will end up sounding better than the last. You may find compression helpful to thicken the mid range instruments, especially the lead at 2:40, but you wouldn't want to overdo it.
The sound at 2:54 is an absolute no-no. Far too loud for such a high frequency.
Around 3:40 it gets quite repetitive, though if sounds were more separated I think it would help the listener to focus on the different elements.
The start of the break sounds great, but I think some of the sounds are a bit harsh on the ear (especially at 4:25 and 4:30).
Try to 'find' sounds in the upper mid range and focus them there. Too much is bunching up in the mids and lower mids. This is especially true for the synth at 5:20.
At 5:35 it sounds like a compresser is doing some major damage, and at 5:51 the bass is sounding too loud and dominating, as with the lead. It's all sounding a bit much really. Are you applying any mix compression? At 7:04 it seems to come off. In short: try to minimise things instead of maximising them, by pulling things off and turning their levels down.
Imu
quote:
Originally posted by Atlantis-AR
Hey there. First off, your treble is awefully high. The hats start out almost painful, and that's only listening to an MP3. 10 kHz is where the most useable treble lies, and too much above this can become fatiguing, so roll off when necessary. My next suggestion is that if do you want to focus your treble that high, to have an equally balanced bottom end.
Moving on, the bass range starts out a little messy (the sound at 0:03 especially). I guess you've blended two sounds so try to EQ them so that their frequencies don't tread on each other. The off-beat transient sound also sounds quite loud, and it's always wise to roll the bass off on any sounds that don't need it. Also the noise in the kick doesn't help a clean sound.
The bass at 0:15 seems far too loud and boomy, but I'll go with it. And at 0:29 I hear you enter the main kick. Definitely far too loud and boomy for everything else, so you'll have to decide what you want to fill the bottom end and apply the necessary level and EQ.
The open hat is again quite high and thin. The clap is much better, but it doesn't have the impact it would were the rest of the mix up to par.
The bass at 0:58 adds equally loud low end as the kick, so level and EQ to bring it out, while having the different sounds fill their own frequency range. The mid range would benefit from this too. It takes practise to get right, and each mix will end up sounding better than the last. You may find compression helpful to thicken the mid range instruments, especially the lead at 2:40, but you wouldn't want to overdo it.
The sound at 2:54 is an absolute no-no. Far too loud for such a high frequency.
Around 3:40 it gets quite repetitive, though if sounds were more separated I think it would help the listener to focus on the different elements.
The start of the break sounds great, but I think some of the sounds are a bit harsh on the ear (especially at 4:25 and 4:30).
Try to 'find' sounds in the upper mid range and focus them there. Too much is bunching up in the mids and lower mids. This is especially true for the synth at 5:20.
At 5:35 it sounds like a compresser is doing some major damage, and at 5:51 the bass is sounding too loud and dominating, as with the lead. It's all sounding a bit much really. Are you applying any mix compression? At 7:04 it seems to come off. In short: try to minimise things instead of maximising them, by pulling things off and turning their levels down.
Hey there. Thank you for your feedback. I will work on these. I didn't realize how painful everything was sounding until I redid the EQ-ing today. It's sounding better, but still a bit painful at the higher frequencies. The hats seem fine now, but the melody is peaking at the upper-mid range, so I'll be working on that tomorrow. After that, I'll put it back up here.
As for the master channel, no - I've actually read your posts multiple times on this forum and so I didn't applying any compression on the master channel until everything else is set! However, I did want to ask, how I could possibly make the snare thicker with EQ? Also, how much does one normally boost EQ levels on a certain frequency? I saw this Youtube video today that said you shouldn't ever go above 6db on any single band. Is this true?
Thanks. And thank you all for listening to this and giving me feedback. I really appreciate it!
Atlantis-AR
quote:
Originally posted by Imu
It's sounding better, but still a bit painful at the higher frequencies.
It's important you do your most crucial EQ and balance adjustments at a comfortable level. This means conversation level, or about 79 dB. After prolonged listening at louder volumes, your perception of higher frequencies begins to diminish, so you can see how this might result in you boosting the treble more.
quote:
Originally posted by Imu
However, I did want to ask, how I could possibly make the snare thicker with EQ? Also, how much does one normally boost EQ levels on a certain frequency? I saw this Youtube video today that said you shouldn't ever go above 6db on any single band. Is this true?
I think in your case you could try turning the level up for starters (of course this may not be needed after applying the following). Then try EQing in more low mid around 300 Hz for bottom, some mid around 850 Hz for crunch, and some presence around 4.5-5 kHz for snap. At least those would be areas I would start with. And to top it off, some high-level compression (compressing the high-level peaks) couldn't hurt, perhaps with some more creative use of a short slap-back reverb or similar. Really just make it sound how you want basically.
It's good to keep a loose 6 dB guideline, but there's no rule saying you can't go higher. Just try to balance the gain with a smooth Q (generally try to keep it fairly wide for general boosting, applying tighter cuts when reducing), but each EQ will have its own characteristic sound it pays to learn this, and most of all: experiment.
Imu
Hey guys,
I just re-did this twice. Read up and watched some Youtube videos on EQ-ing yesterday, re-did it. It sounded clearer. Read some more today and re-did it again, and it's sounding even clearer today! Here's the track, and I would love feedback once again please.
My thoughts on it are as follows:
1. The lead sound does need to be fatter, so I will work on this tomorrow. I'm still discovering Logic's EXS24. They say it's powerful, so I suppose I need to discover that power by reading up on it.
2. The compressor is not doing as much damage towards the end of the breakdown, but there's still a noticeable difference whenever the kick drops out.
3. Certain sounds seem either over or under-sidechained to me. So I'll be working on this soon too.
4. The snare needs more thickening.
Finally, as a question: how many of your channels do you guys add compressors to? I've added one to every one of mine and I wonder if this is normal. Also, how many - and which - channels do you sidechain? I take it that sidechaining the bass is a must, but I've sidechained everything except my strings and pads, and I wonder if this is too much. I know there's no right answer, but just looking to see what other people usually do.
Thank you everyone once again!
Atlantis-AR
quote:
Originally posted by Imu
Finally, as a question: how many of your channels do you guys add compressors to? I've added one to every one of mine and I wonder if this is normal. Also, how many - and which - channels do you sidechain? I take it that sidechaining the bass is a must, but I've sidechained everything except my strings and pads, and I wonder if this is too much. I know there's no right answer, but just looking to see what other people usually do.
Thank you everyone once again!
A compressor is a dynamics processor, so do you want to automatically adjust the gain of every channel? Probably not. Also there isn't just one way to adjust the gain, and a simple level adjustment will often suffice. So, no, I wouldn't put it on every channel, but figure out why and what you want the compressor to do and you'll know which channels to use it on. It's the same with using EQ to adjust the frequency balance of a sound; you use a compressor to adjust the dynamic balance of a sound. Usually this will mean you'll use it to compress high-level peaks on dynamic sounds (a greater difference in volume between soft and loud, or a greater balance between the peaks of a sound); or as low-level compression to bring up low-level information; or anywhere in between. Sometimes drum sounds won't need compression, most times they do, as do basses, but not always. Pads and leads fall somewhere in between in my opinion (with leads having greater preference), but there's really no right or wrong.
As for sidechain, the only difference is you're going to be compressing a sound with another trigger as the source, but the same concept applies. If it sounds right, it is right.
Will post on your track later.
Atlantis-AR
Well it's sounding a lot better, but you've still got a lot to work on. Your biggest problem is still in the bass range but I'll give a rundown of the entire track as I hear it.
The treble is much improved in the intro, though it could certainly come up a bit. The plucky synth sounds maybe a bit dry to me, but that may just have been a creative decision. Try cutting the kick with a fairly tight bandwidth at 87 Hz though. This will reduce the peak level of the kick and make way for the bass' fundamentals. Plus I think the intro kick sounds better for it.
The bass at 0:15 is especially loud at this 87 Hz frequency, but it may just work. Having the main kick enter doesn't make things any better though. Try reducing the boom on the kick in any way I'd say. Not sure if it's the same kick but cutting at 87 Hz won't work (you'd be looking more around 50-60 Hz). There's just too much sub 100 Hz. If you want the kick to sound that way, you're just going to have to reduce it in level or you're going to have problems playing it on for instance car stereos.
The open hat sounds much better, though again the treble (volume) can be a lot louder to counteract such a heavy bottom end.
The clap seems to have lost impact. Maybe it sounds too mid-heavy and definitely too quiet.
The main bass at 0:58 adds on even more bass, eating up more and more valuable mixing space. Rather than cutting any bass out, I think a generous high-pass filter will suffice. Try from around 70-80 Hz even. And if you think it's doing too much, try a shelving filter instead. Not sure what you're doing in the way of sidechaining but all I hear is a muddy bass end. You've also got so much space around 500 Hz to fill so as you're taking bass out, you can replace it with level here, increasing clarity at low volumes.
The synths all start out very quietly around 1:30, and could do with a lot more level and upper-mid clarity.
2:25 adds a sudden jump in the mids. Also around 2:37 it definitely goes too loud. Reduce muddiness around 500 Hz where you may have boosted it on any of the bass instruments, while pushing the upper mids around 3 kHz. There's just so much room left to play with. Likewise the pad at 3:25, more 6 kHz! The guitar in the break sounds better, but maybe a bit underrepresented now.
Also watch the volume of the lower mids on the bass entering after the break. It may need to be cut a bit here or reduced in level, and boosted elsewhere to be more noticeable. And do turn all of the treble instruments up because the sound has become a lot more muffled now.
