Originally posted by Eric J
Honestly, I think at first you might want to focus on just finishing stuff and not worry so much about "your own identity or style". There are very, very few producers that start out and are able to establish their own identity and style right off the bat. It takes a rather unique talent that not many producers have, even the "established" ones.
The vast majority of producers start out emulating their favorites just like everyone else. Its only after they have been doing it for a while, finishing a lot of "generic" tracks that they get to a point where they can start "establishing their own identity". In fact, if you read interviews they'll all tell you that one of the biggest things that separates "amateurs" from "pros" is the ability to finish tracks. Good or bad, they know how to get from concept to completion in a reasonable amount of time. You need to establish a workflow that allows to you do that, THEN you can start worrying about things like "identity" or "style".
I think you are going to drive yourself crazy trying to be "new and different" and "trying to establish an identity" if you aren't to the point of being able to finish tracks. Its just like any other craft, first you learn how other people did it, and then you can start figuring out how YOU can do it differently.
Try not to get bogged down in details. You know how generic my bass lines sound when its just a kick drum and one bass pattern playing? Its horribly generic, but I've learned that it doesn't really matter because its not about how it sounds in isolation, but how it sounds in the context of the greater track. SO just start adding parts and getting your framework nailed down and don't worry too much about how each element sounds. I think you'll find it much easier with a general framework sketched to find out what sounds bad, what needs to be changed, and what to add to get your work into a completed state.
Truth.
I've had the unfortunate experience of having someone trying to force that view-point - that you have to establish your own voice, first - onto me and it honestly made me miserable. What's true about Eric's post is that your voice comes with the accumulation of techniques and influences. Every song I make has techniques all practiced with the preceding one, in mind.
Over time, the technique becomes less of a crutch and more of a tool, if that makes any sense. What was once just a vehicle to get a loop and then a song finished, became something more as I learned how to apply it within a collection of techniques. It started off as emulation but eventually helped me to learn.
And it's not even that I've given up emulating. I even have a sound in my current project which is derived from the Sandstorm setting in Zeta+. There's truth to the slogan, "Great artists steal." :p
Mise
very wise reflections guys, I totally agree..
cryophonik
quote:
Originally posted by Eric J
Honestly, I think at first you might want to focus on just finishing stuff...
That is definitely the key. Focus on the song, envision the final product, and take it there. Then, move on to the next song and do the same. Repeat ad nauseum and your style will eventually reveal itself.
Kysora
I'd like to think I have at least a somewhat original sound. I've never worried too much about that though.
theterran
quote:
Originally posted by Beatflux
Unless there are lyrics, nobody has any ing idea what an artist is trying to convey.
Read everyone elses stuff...It's cool to gather what other's think on the matter...
had to stop back in to argue with this quote however.
None of my tracks have vocals in them...and you can easily discern the environment I'm trying to create. Same with alot of other non-vocal tracks.
They can be downtempo and laid back, Uplifting and Euphoric, and the other myriad of different flavors that express an artists mood...
When I'm angry in the moment, I tend to create more "violent" in your face tracks...when I'm happy I tend to make more progressive uplifting tunes...
Plus...most trance vocals I hear make 0 ing sense whatsoever and are a total random spattering of words akin to someone with tourettes ... I know of a few tracks that would benefit from having the vocals stripped right the hell out...
This one for example : (The female vocals...the male vocals are fine imo)
This track is also a good example of something with lower production quality and simplicity that's really quite good.
I can tell the artist was a little moody and maybe in a deep state of mind when he wrote this. The emotion in it would have been noticeable even without the terrible female vocals...
And I did in fact emulate this in my own style (as it's one of my favorite types of trance with a fat bass synth and those sexy phased arps that come in and out of pluck, i just wish soundcloud would stop trashing my 320's >=/ )
Originally posted by Beatflux
Unless there are lyrics, nobody has any ing idea what an artist is trying to convey.
Sometimes, even with lyrics, and perhaps even because of, it's still hard as hell to figure it out.
Case and point about to be posted.
DJ Robby Rox
This threads really great its definitely made me think about my priorities in a new light.
theterran
Oh and Robby...I think alot of innovation comes out of being bored as from doing the same thing over and over and over, and you think, hey what if I try this instead...
Naturally harder said than done...but I'd place a huge wager that innovation most often isn't forced at all, or due to necessity...it simply comes out of someone getting bored of the same.
Also might be one's frame of mind...I see alot of people on TA trying to pigeon-hole themselves into a certain niche rather than letting their own intuition govern what it wants. Not that this is bad, as putting restrictions on yourself can also enhance your creativity...but it can also limit it.
I've only just started producing since last year, so I myself am only just starting to figure out my own style, but it hasn't stopped me from experimenting in psy-trance, progressive, house, dubstep, DnB etc...Even tried making a tune that started out like house, then tried mixing it into straight up trance, then back to house again.
I think once you grow sick and tired of people telling you what you can and can't do, you'll start to innovate.
In music, the rules are made to be broken.
You'll also find that alot of innovation will be looked down upon, as most people actually loathe change and prefer the norm (pop music anyone? Bueller? Bueller...)...Sometimes you just gotta spoon-feed it to them till they like it ;D
Anyway, I digress. (back on topic >>>)
Beatflux
quote:
Originally posted by theterran
None of my tracks have vocals in them...and you can easily discern the environment I'm trying to create. Same with alot of other non-vocal tracks.
They can be downtempo and laid back, Uplifting and Euphoric, and the other myriad of different flavors that express an artists mood...
When I'm angry in the moment, I tend to create more "violent" in your face tracks...when I'm happy I tend to make more progressive uplifting tunes...
Plus...most trance vocals I hear make 0 ing sense whatsoever and are a total random spattering of words akin to someone with tourettes ... I know of a few tracks that would benefit from having the vocals stripped right the hell out...
This one for example : (The female vocals...the male vocals are fine imo)
This track is also a good example of something with lower production quality and simplicity that's really quite good.
There's no doubt that an artist can create a perceived mood. But trying to pinpoint what the artist was feeling at the time of creation is nothing more than mind reading unless there is proof. Each genre/sub-genre has its own feel anyways, and what I am getting from your post is that you think whatever sub-genre is picked is the mood expressed. Some artists, pigeon hole themselves into a sub genre, so in that situation whole argument is void.
Music can inspire individualistic feelings, but it doesn't convey them like a movie or poem can.
Beatflux
quote:
Originally posted by Eric J
Honestly, I think at first you might want to focus on just finishing stuff and not worry so much about "your own identity or style". There are very, very few producers that start out and are able to establish their own identity and style right off the bat. It takes a rather unique talent that not many producers have, even the "established" ones.
The vast majority of producers start out emulating their favorites just like everyone else. Its only after they have been doing it for a while, finishing a lot of "generic" tracks that they get to a point where they can start "establishing their own identity". In fact, if you read interviews they'll all tell you that one of the biggest things that separates "amateurs" from "pros" is the ability to finish tracks. Good or bad, they know how to get from concept to completion in a reasonable amount of time. You need to establish a workflow that allows to you do that, THEN you can start worrying about things like "identity" or "style".
I think you are going to drive yourself crazy trying to be "new and different" and "trying to establish an identity" if you aren't to the point of being able to finish tracks. Its just like any other craft, first you learn how other people did it, and then you can start figuring out how YOU can do it differently.
Try not to get bogged down in details. You know how generic my bass lines sound when its just a kick drum and one bass pattern playing? Its horribly generic, but I've learned that it doesn't really matter because its not about how it sounds in isolation, but how it sounds in the context of the greater track. SO just start adding parts and getting your framework nailed down and don't worry too much about how each element sounds. I think you'll find it much easier with a general framework sketched to find out what sounds bad, what needs to be changed, and what to add to get your work into a completed state.
Spoken like a pro. I'm glad you are still here.
I still find finishing tracks difficult, but it is very rewarding when I do.
theterran
quote:
Originally posted by Beatflux
There's no doubt that an artist can create a perceived mood. But trying to pinpoint what the artist was feeling at the time of creation is nothing more than mind reading unless there is proof. Each genre/sub-genre has its own feel anyways, and what I am getting from your post is that you think whatever sub-genre is picked is the mood expressed. Some artists, pigeon hole themselves into a sub genre, so in that situation whole argument is void.
Music can inspire individualistic feelings, but it doesn't convey them like a movie or poem can.
Aye, I was being more general I suppose. I was just saying that you can still probably glean some of what the artist had in mind with out vocals, nothing too specific as to exactly how they were feeling I guess. Most oft though, an artists mood will reflect in their piece, I was merely talking about myself personally with regards to sub-genre. For me it's easier to portray "happiness" in progressive trance than in psytrance or dubstep for example.
The other thing in my mind was the message itself. If the artist was feeling ty and wanted to convey an uplifting happy tune, you could probably tell that the tune is meant to inspire uplifting/happy feelings without vocals saying "don't worry, be happy". :)
The basis of my statement was from the myriad of interviews I've seen with artists like Infected Mushroom or Armin Van Buuren as to how/what brings out their sound. Alot of it is their current state of mind during the production experience.
When I myself am happy, I tend towards progressive/uplifting tracks. Or if I'm working in another sub-genre, I'll typically be dealing with major chords, rather than melodic/harmonic minor. *shrug*
Beatflux
quote:
Originally posted by theterran
Aye, I was being more general I suppose. I was just saying that you can still probably glean some of what the artist had in mind with out vocals, nothing too specific as to exactly how they were feeling I guess. Most oft though, an artists mood will reflect in their piece, I was merely talking about myself personally with regards to sub-genre. For me it's easier to portray "happiness" in progressive trance than in psytrance or dubstep for example.
The other thing in my mind was the message itself. If the artist was feeling ty and wanted to convey an uplifting happy tune, you could probably tell that the tune is meant to inspire uplifting/happy feelings without vocals saying "don't worry, be happy". :)
The basis of my statement was from the myriad of interviews I've seen with artists like Infected Mushroom or Armin Van Buuren as to how/what brings out their sound. Alot of it is their current state of mind during the production experience.
When I myself am happy, I tend towards progressive/uplifting tracks. Or if I'm working in another sub-genre, I'll typically be dealing with major chords, rather than melodic/harmonic minor. *shrug*
I figured that we would agree. I don't usually like to try elaborate my thoughts very well, because it usually takes me several redrafts to get the point where I can say what I want to say.
