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What can Logic Pro do more (or better) then Ableton Live? (buying question)
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| Dance123 |
Hi,
To those who have experience with both Logic Pro and Ableton Live, could you please tell me what Logic can do more or better then Ableton Live.
As far as I can see Ableton can do pretty much everything, but I still wanna know what Logic could do more or better so that i can decide for myself if i should consider buying Logic or not?
Maybe list the things Logic has more or does better then Ableton and the other way around.
Thanks for all good feedback! |
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| ken_lee |
| its too soon for me to compare these as im pretty new to both but i love the instruments in logic so far. |
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| cryophonik |
I've owned Live and, although I've never used Logic, I know enough about it due to its similarities with Sonar and Cubase that I can offer my opinion. Live is great at doing many things, particularly anything related to loop-based (MIDI and audio) production where it is arguably the best. But, IMO it really falls short when it comes to: (1) linear-based production, particularly with a lot of audio, (2) tracking audio, (3) limited/quirky buss routing, and (4) support for external hardware synths. TBH, I'm not familiar with Logic's support for external gear, though, so take that comment with a grain of salt - Sonar and Cubase both have excellent support and workflow for outboard gear, and I assume that Logic does as well. I also don't like the fact that Live doesn't have a proper mixing console view, but that's probably more of a personal preference and ReWire is a viable workaround.
If this sounds like I'm hammering Live a little bit here, that's not my intention, it just didn't really work with my particular workflow and I didn't conform to it very well due to my production style. But, it's great at what it does - no denying that. Just my 2 cents - I'm sure there are some better qualified people here to answer your question anyway. |
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| Seandroid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Clearly this comes down to personal preference, but for me:
Logic:
- Better built in instruments and effects
- More robust environment for working with external gear.
- Better mixer, especially when working with complex signal routing.
- More suited to a "traditional" studio setup.
- Works well with odd time signatures (not really an issue for EDM, but still).
- I prefer the MIDI editing in Logic over Ableton Live. I just can't get my head around the Live Piano Roll.
- Lots of higher end hardware designed with Logic in mind.
- Lots of ancillary tools that you may only use 3 or 4 times per year, but they are lifesavers when you need them.
- Designed by Apple for Apple hardware. Tight integration with OS X is a good thing.
Ableton Live:
- Way better audio editing at every level. Frequently, I'll do major time stretching and chopping in Live and export it to Logic. Or Rewire it.
- More versatile. Ableton is equally at home making a DJ mix as it is making an original composition. Also make a fantastic platform for live performance.
- Ideally suited to loop based production styles.
- Superior environment for adding 3rd party functionality (see Max4Live)
- Cross-platform.
To be honest, its really about choosing the right tool for the job. I really couldn't produce without both. My main DAW software package is Logic, but there is a lot of stuff I do exclusively in Live because it's just easier and more suited for the task. Outside of producing I have a lot of tasks that are done in Live, DJ mixes, our podcast, etc. Live's audio editing is second to none. |
What do you feel exactly is better about the audio editing in Abelton? Logic 9 has some pretty cool features.
Flex Time is a feature suite that came with 9, it has the flex too which lets you push audio around with your mouse visually on the waveform so you don't have to splice it and edit it, it does audio quantizing and you can match the audio to the groove of another track, it has a new drum slicing mode, Varispeed lets you slow down tracks and speed up tracks, effecting the audio as well as the Midi, it has speed fading automation, and when you import audio it can automatically conform it to the tempo of your track.
Is Abelton more efficient or something? Logic is pretty feature rich in that area. |
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| Zombie0729 |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
I've owned Live and, although I've never used Logic, I know enough about it due to its similarities with Sonar and Cubase that I can offer my opinion. Live is great at doing many things, particularly anything related to loop-based (MIDI and audio) production where it is arguably the best. But, IMO it really falls short when it comes to: (1) linear-based production, particularly with a lot of audio, (2) tracking audio, (3) limited/quirky buss routing, and (4) support for external hardware synths. TBH, I'm not familiar with Logic's support for external gear, though, so take that comment with a grain of salt - Sonar and Cubase both have excellent support and workflow for outboard gear, and I assume that Logic does as well. I also don't like the fact that Live doesn't have a proper mixing console view, but that's probably more of a personal preference and ReWire is a viable workaround.
If this sounds like I'm hammering Live a little bit here, that's not my intention, it just didn't really work with my particular workflow and I didn't conform to it very well due to my production style. But, it's great at what it does - no denying that. Just my 2 cents - I'm sure there are some better qualified people here to answer your question anyway. |
I actually agree w/ all of your points except #3, the buss routing. In Ableton 8.1.3 the grouping is MUCH better now, you just highlight the tracks you want to group together, hit cmd + g and boom, groups it all for you and you can put fx on the group channel now. It's awesome. You can also color code your groups and now i have a template that is an OCD persons wet dream!
I will say with Logic you don't even need third party plugs to make a great track, logic is STACKED with sounds, synths, fx, etc. Ableton on the other hand has good fx and what not but they are a bit simple and not as high qualiy (imo).
Now that said, I own ableton and do everything in ableton. Lot's of users do, deadmau5, wolfgang gartner, seb leger, laidback luke etc. Can you get an amazing production out of ableton - yes. Do you NEED third party plugs - no but comparing apples to apples (har har), logic's stock instruments & fx are better than the ones that come w/ abletons stock suite.
I would never move solely to logic because of the workflow but i do use it from time time for sounds :) |
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| Mise |
a lot of good qualified advice has been given. IMO; If you are going to produce based on loops and arrangement, and you want to get "quick" results with a intuitive approach and a holistic perspective Ableton does the work. If you want to build sounds from ground and control every bit of your production I go for Logic.
I dont know Cubase and Sonar but I feel that if you learn logic is not that difficult to move to those, in case you need. I cant say the same for Ableton, I feel it has a more live Dj, approach. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Seems like those of us who have been doing this for a while prefer the more "traditional" linear sequencer designs (Logic, Cubase, etc.), where as new producers who come into the fold seem to prefer Live.
Just a trend I have been seeing the past few years. |
I've noticed that too. Wish I would've bought stock in Ableton 5 years ago or so. |
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| Dance123 |
What is so great about the Logic synths?
I have heard that before but i don't see how for example ES2 would be better then Sylenth1.. the interface of ES2 looks ugly, don't you agree?
Also, doesn't ableton come with Ultra Analog AAS-1 synth which i believe is really good?
can you give a description of each of the Logic synths and why they are so great? |
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| DJ RANN |
Eric is spot on as usual, but I have to disagree with logic time stretching not sounding as good - I don't think that's true anymore.
It's also really not that difficult to now play with tempo matching (it used to be a pain, even in pro 8, but pro 9 has revolutionized it).
check out this vid for the function - basically once you have it analised it's so damn faet to play around with with audio (and bear in mind it takes os long for him as he's doing multiple tracks at once).
http://www.youtube.com/user/sflogic...u/8/7YjgKLZ2jpY
I'm not saying logic is up to abletons level of time stretching options or ease of use, but the gap is way smaller now.
I also think logic in terms of audio editing is at least on a par if not better than the competition. Ok, so it's not protools or wavelab but it's audio editing is at least as good as cuabe or sonar.
I can't really comment too much on ableton audio editing as that's probably the sequencer I have used least in depth.
Once piece of advice with logic is that you need to get in to key commands and learn them just like with protools - logic lets you key command nearly every function and without them set up, you could be wasting a lot of time. |
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| DJ RANN |
Very interesting - I've never really given live a true shake apart from the earlier versions (3) and when I've been forced to navigate it at work. Maybe time to look again.....
Btw, When you say extremes, do you mean for sound effect purposes etc? I can see that, as Logic does get a bit crunchy/digital when going all out.
That's also a good point about crossfades on individual clips or regions. I'm going to look in to this when I get home I recently had to a do project of creating 8 hours of continuous music with crossfades between preselected songs (not tmepos matching or DJ mix though) and just used the cross fade option. Not as intuitive as protools, in the way you can see both layers transparencies over each other, but still quite usable. I'll check and see if there's any better way of doing it.
I suppose it never bothered me too much as I was always used to sequencers being crap at really detailed editing of audio, so just got used to also having soundforge or wavelab open at all times.
Now that I think about it (and the fact I don't have wavelab for mac :whip: ) I should have a look at audio editing editing again in logic. |
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| Seandroid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Eric J
Yeah, I mean I agree with most of what you are saying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's horrible, its just not the best. The biggest complaint about timestretching is that it starts to break down at extremes in Logic much faster than in Live. I've done some crazy timestretching and pitch shifting in Logic and Live, but Live just has a greater range without introducing audible artifacts.
Another big complaint I have with it is how so much work must be done in the sample editor instead of directly on the arrange window. Now maybe I'm missing these functions, but even Cubase had things like crossfades and individual region volume edits built right into the arrange window on a clip-level. It was like having WaveLab on each individual clip. In Logic I have to do things like crossfades either with the crossfaade tool (which I hate because its hard to be accurate unless you zoom way in) or, for example, use a menu on the sample editor window to adjust clip volumes. Logic simply doesn't have that broad array of functionality at the clip level in the arrange window. I have to go into the Sample Editor window for a LOT of that.
Along those same lines, Flex Time also has to be done in a separate window, where as Live does all that right in the arrange window. Even the whole "clip" concept in Live makes working with Audio and MIDI virtually identical, and thats what I was getting at with the "immediacy" of Live.
I work with a LOT of audio in Ableton Live, and I've been doing it since Live 4, so, even when Apple began to improve the audio editing with Logic, it still wasn't as good as Live. I can see how if you don't do much work in Live you might not be used to how easy it all is, but for those of us that do, it's hard to imagine working any other way.
Live is really good for certain tasks,m especially tasks that are heavily audio based, but there are also a lot of things that are downright annoying when using it as a composition tool. I hate the whole "plugins on that track only show up when the track is selected", I don't know who's idea that was. Also Live doesn't lend itself to multi-monitor setups like Logic does. As much as I like Live for things like advanced audio editing and DJ sets, I could never use it as a composition tool because it just missing too many things I have come to rely on. |
Logic does crossfades in the arrange window.
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| farris |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dance123
I have heard that before but i don't see how for example ES2 would be better then Sylenth1..
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Don't be too quick to judge. ES2 is a very, very capable synth. |
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