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Tracks, Mono, Dual Mono sounding awesome (pg. 2)
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| lenieNt Force |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ TL
so just because the left and right channels are different that means they are out of phase with each other |
Yes, but not necessarily completely out of phase. As they are approaching complete opposites they get more and more out of phase and cancels eachother out more and more, gets more and more phasy, and the meter goes left. Therefore the correlation meter should stay somewhere on the right side.
edit:.. sry I wrote the oscilloscope but I meant the correlation meter.. |
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| DJ TL |
yeah thats what they called it in the manual as well, I just felt the information they provided a bit biased.
Thanks for the reply`s that clears it up quite a bit for me. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by lenieNt Force
Yes, but not necessarily completely out of phase. As they are approaching complete opposites they get more and more out of phase and cancels eachother out more and more, gets more and more phasy, and the meter goes left. Therefore the correlation meter should stay somewhere on the right side.
edit:.. sry I wrote the oscilloscope but I meant the correlation meter.. |
Sorry to be pedantic but this is not actually true the way you have written it. The most out of phase you can get is 180 degrees, which in the case of matching content for each channel, would result in a complete cancellation (known at phase cancellation).
When two channels are completely in phase, they are additive in terms amplitude.
Phasing occurs when two channels have the same or similar content at the same time.
One easy way to avoid phasing is to delay one channel, not by use of delay FX as such, by actually nudging the audio file/sample or setting a delay on the track setting for that channel.
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
What is convergence? |
Convergence is the opposite of divergence and is also referfenced in relation to focus, and this applies specifically to monitoring situations
To clarify and explain, it's the spread or bleed of one sound source in to more than one speaker. The easiest way to generalize explanation of it is to think about a 5.1 system and the image field in which sounds can spread across that space. Divergence is how much of the other channels will be present in the other speakers, in relation to that field of spread. so if you were to pan a sound slightly to the left some would be present in the center speaker and most in left, with a tiny bit in the right speaker.
With a stereo system, it's analogous to the pan law where a preset amount of "fade" (or reduction) is introduced as you pan from one extreme to the other. In multiple speaker arrays or advanced zoning systems at clubs for instance, a global setting for the divergence is usually set to account for the spread or the stereo field. |
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| DJ TL |
izotope has a band delay section as well to delay specific frequency by very small amounts...
Also if you were to delay the low frequencies i.e. below 250hz wouldnt that sound kinda off, and somewhat unnecessary since those channels should be mono anyways.... |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ TL
izotope has a band delay section as well to delay specific frequency by very small amounts...
Also if you were to delay the low frequencies i.e. below 250hz wouldnt that sound kinda off, and somewhat unnecessary since those channels should be mono anyways.... |
Personally, I don't think you should do it a plug in action - it's really not that difficult to deal with phasing issues at the source, i.e by nudging one of the tracks or adjusting perameters in the synth itself or watching your frequency content and stereo spread effects.
Plugins like that are useful when all else fails but it's cure rather than prevention. |
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| DJ TL |
so basically I should just try and keep from having too much in the same frequency range and if I do notice my correlation meter going hard left, I should try nudging samples in the same frequency range forward or backward slightly...
Would EQ help fix this at all cutting the problem frequencies by 2 or 3 db maybe
Sorry if I sound like a scrub producer I just like learning proper technique from the get go. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ TL
so basically I should just try and keep from having too much in the same frequency range and if I do notice my correlation meter going hard left, I should try nudging samples in the same frequency range forward or backward slightly...
Would EQ help fix this at all cutting the problem frequencies by 2 or 3 db maybe
Sorry if I sound like a scrub producer I just like learning proper technique from the get go. |
You're on the right track - good engineering is about letting sounds sit in their own place, both in terms of frequency and pan, using EQ to help separate and add presence where needed. If you have phasing between sounds, try nudging them as described or even detuning one ever so slightly. |
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| DJ TL |
So contrary to what has been said, the correlation meter will go to the left when there is phasing i.e two similar sounds are playing on the same channel at the same time...
or is it that the two channels are different...
Sorry I feel im getting multiple answers for the use of it. |
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| Anxieties |
| quote: | Originally posted by lenieNt Force
A mix should always sound really good in mono, for its only seldom that you sit right infront of two speakers and hear the true stereo image...
It's always easier to get your track balanced out correctly as you mix in mono, cause you don't get confused by the illusion of stereo.
it's more important than stereo if you want your mix to be constant across listening environments and listening positions.
Always remember your mix changes as you move, unless it's good in mono. |
I understand all of these concerns. We have to mix for mono to ensure that our track sounds excellent even in less than ideal environments.
That said, I'd like to know: could a professional stereo mix do things that would sound perfect in stereo but awful in mono? If a stereo only mix was made for a song, would they be able to make it sound better than the standard mix? I think it would sound great because they wouldn't have to sacrifice anything. But I could be wrong.
Which of these positions is correct:
- Even if you intend to mix for stereo alone, checking the mix in mono would still benefit you. In fact, if you polish your mix in mono, you could actually obtain better results with your "stereo only" mix.
- There are things that sound beautiful in stereo, but aren't done because they will ruin the mix for most people. If mixing for a wide audience, you'd have to compromise on them or drop them completely.
Just food for thought. If someone could clear up any misunderstandings I have, I'd appreciate it. |
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| Anxieties |
Clarification:
It's so hard to state this, really. I'm not asking if there's something that can only be heard in stereo but not mono, because that would make no sense. Stereo can't be heard in mono, obviously.
I mean to ask if there's any kind of mix that simply can't be reconciled for both mono and stereo whatsoever. If you keep it for stereo, your mix will sound bad in mono and you can't do anything about this, because if you try to correct it for mono, it will sound bad in stereo. Something like that.
And if that is the case, could this mean that there's a whole range of possibilities for stereo mixing that we haven't explored because of the mono/stereo issues. It would be like the mix requiring that you sit still and position your speakers correctly to hear it at its best. It makes me feel like you have to sacrifice some form of quality to make your mix sound good when listened to incorrectly. Why should you have to mix for that if you're trying to do something for "smart" listeners?
But I do suspect that the problems that cause the mix to sound less than great in mono are absolute problems whether you're mixing for stereo alone or for all situations.
I wish I could explain this succinctly, but if I did that, I'm sure I'd be misunderstood. Sorry for the long-windedness and weak writing. |
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| derail |
| You wouldn't end up with something which sounds noticeably different if you only cared about the stereo mix without taking into account the mono mix. It'd just mean you wouldn't have to worry about tweaking stereo effects such as chorus/phasers etc. Sometimes stereo treatments can cause sounds to disappear if they're summed to mono. In most cases this is fixed by adjusting the plugin's parameters. It won't sound noticeably different in stereo, but will come through a lot more clearly in mono. |
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