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Kush Audio Gain Train - Main Gain & Function Junction
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View this Thread in Original format
| DJ RANN |
So this popped up in a thread on here a little while back and since having dome a ton of research on it, it looks like my next purchase.
The stats are pretty ing incredible for this little box and easily competes with agin controllers costing three times as much.
(and yes, you can change the volume control knob to something less phallic).
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I don't know about y'all, but I was *tired* of using a monitor controller whose sonics were highly questionable and that felt like crap when I flicked a switch. At the same time, I couldn't bring myself to spend $2,000 on something that just seemed like it shouldn't cost so much.
So I dreamed up a controller that I would be proud to own, one that would sonically KILL the boxes that were affordable, that would be built like a tank and last a lifetime rather than break after 3 months of light use, and that would tap the bank account for way, way less than the other sweet, high end monitor controllers out there.
I also wanted it to be configurable, so someone could spend very little and get the basic unit if all they wanted was to control a single set of monitors and have no fears about the sonic integrity of the signal. And for those who need more i/o and bells and whistles, I wanted it to be easily expandable and *still* be affordable.
Voila, the Gain Train from Kush Audio. With a MAP of $499 per module, there is nothing on the market anywhere near this price which is completely transparent and that, like all Kush Gear, feels rock solid in your hands.
When I first sketched the original Gain train prototype, it was 4 tiny modules. I floated the concept by Brad McGowan, and over time we pared the design down to 2 small-modules with future expandability. Brad went to town on the circuit design, to say he nailed it is an understatement. The result is an extraordinarily transparent controller at a breakthrough price.
Module 1: The Main Gain
- Standalone, stereo in stereo out monitor controller
- True mono at the flick of a switch
- Independent Left & Right muting (I've wanted this feature forever!)
- Dual-channel Tri-Color LED Level Metering
- Expansion port on the side for Function Junction and any future modules we may be dreaming up
- ruler flat freq response, +/- .1db from 2hz-20k, only 3db down at 200K
- crazy low phase shift, only 7.5 degrees at 20k (this spec is not often published, and is related to whether sound is perceived as 'sloppy' or 'veiled' vs. 'tight' and 'clear')
- dc coupled signal path, no electrolytic capacitors in the monitor's signal path
Module 2: The Function Junction
- Expansion unit for the Main Gain, adds 2 stereo inputs and 2 stereo outputs
- Talkback with Level Control (fed to headphones, auto-mutes the program)
- Dual Headphone Amps with Independent Volume Knobs (these amps are clean as a whistle and get *very* loud, be warned)
- All i/o via rear 25-pin d-sub, to keep the cabling neat as a pin
Greg and I are really proud of this so I'm going to toot our horn a little, which is not really in my nature...but I'm a proud papa. You will be hard pressed to find many high end consoles or 3rd party monitor controllers that pass the entire audio band (and then some) this transparently with so little phase shift and distortion. Since there are no coupling caps in the signal path the low end comes through unscathed with zero low frequency roll-off or phase shift. Zilch. Nada. That means big, tight, accurate bottom end with no muddiness. And we optimized each of the stages for ultra-extended top end (-3 dB down at 200kHz!) and super negligible phase shift at 20kHz. This means your audio comes out sounding just like it did going in. Go ahead and ask your favorite $0.5M automated console manufacturer how much phase shift they're sporting. |
More here: (and I see that JJ commented in that thread!)
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-...ntrol-last.html |
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| MSZ |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
(and yes, you can change the volume control knob to something less phallic).
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| cryophonik |
| Nice find. Want! |
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| Senator Clay Davis |
| could use that myself, the function junction is a input selector right? actually what i really need is a decent high end pre amp with balanced ins and outs + spdif, like primare. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Senator Clay Davis
could use that myself, the function junction is a input selector right? actually what i really need is a decent high end pre amp with balanced ins and outs + spdif, like primare. |
Yes, but when combined (don't think the FJ can be used by itself) the system then has two ins and two outs, all discrete and all selectable.
One of the best thing about this unit (and I think it's unique) is that it has mono AND channel mutes, meaning you can finally do true, single speaker Mono referencing just by pusshing the two buttons and turning to face the speaker.
Anyway, what with you needing spdif? |
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| Senator Clay Davis |
| just to have a digital input for various stuff like DVD players and stuff. remember i have all this in my livingroom and its all a part of my homeaudio too. multiple usuage stuff is what im going for. should have HDMI too. at some point id like to have DSP monitors too, and would need to learn more about the ABUS standard or what its called. how do i get the sound from my computer to the ABUS XLR standard for DSP? Some sort of USB/ABUS soundcard without DAC? |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Senator Clay Davis
just to have a digital input for various stuff like DVD players and stuff. remember i have all this in my livingroom and its all a part of my homeaudio too. multiple usuage stuff is what im going for. should have HDMI too. at some point id like to have DSP monitors too, and would need to learn more about the ABUS standard or what its called. how do i get the sound from my computer to the ABUS XLR standard for DSP? Some sort of USB/ABUS soundcard without DAC? |
Firstly, DSP monitors. I don't want digital EQ's in speakers. Just good analogue transducers. End of story.
well the A-bus standard is just audio over cat5. It utilises TX and RX hubs to essentially transmit the audio in a form of robust data.
It's great in some way because you can send one signal (input) to up to four zones and if you have the power modules, can be discrete volume controlled.
It's really so you don't have audio cables all over your house, just single cat5 lines and the hubs at each end.
The only thing is, you still have to run the cat5 but I suppose if your house is already networked for cat5 then it's just a case of plugging in the hibs then the kit to those hubs where appropriate.
So basically, you just take the audio output from your soundcard, and plug that in to the input of the transmission hub.That converts it to the cat5 data standard, and then you have hubs next to your equipment that decodes the signal and outputs as an audio signal.
I've installed it a couple of times and found it to be quite hassle free, but personally for a small setup like yours, I'd go wireless. I'll post up a thread soon, with a new and very cheap system I just installed at a business, that allow four zones form one input and it does it over wireless connection like a 2.4ghz wireless phone. It's ing wicked and only cost me $400 for one transmitter and four receivers.
You can also get wireless HDMI systems now for less then $200 that work pretty damn well.
let me know if you need more detail and I'll start a thread on it. |
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| Senator Clay Davis |
i totally forgot about the cat5 thing but i was more thinking about the digital XLR standard. im not sure what it is but i see all DSP monitors have it. the DSP monitors im looking at are genelec 8240.
edit: its called AES/EBU it seems. what id like to know is what gear have USB in and AES/EBU out (as soundcard whatever).
from genelec manual:
| quote: | | “DIGITAL IN AES/EBU” Connector Use this female XLR connector for AES/EBU formatted digital audio input signals. This input is selected automatically when a valid digital audio signal is present, and overrides the analogue input. Depending on the digital hardware, transmission of a 192 kHz sample rate is achieved using a double speed, single channel/ cable interface. This is called dual-wire mode. In this case one cable per channel is used and no channel selection is required. Dual-wire mode is automatically detected by the input stage. If the digital source device has a digital level monitor pot or graphical volume fader that controls the digital level, it may be advantageous to lower the level control either on the computer interface or the loudspeaker’s back panel controls, which in turn will force the use of more of the digital [bit] resolution in the vol- ume control. If the digital inputs are used, all audio outputs are referenced to 0 dBFS (digital Full Scale, the largest level that may be rep- resented in the AES/EBU signal). Genelec DSP loudspeakers produce 100 dB SPL at 1 meter in free space for a digital input signal of –30 dB FS. It is advantageous to keep the digital level as high as possible. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Senator Clay Davis
i totally forgot about the cat5 thing but i was more thinking about the digital XLR standard. im not sure what it is but i see all DSP monitors have it. the DSP monitors im looking at are genelec 8240. |
You're talking about AES/EBU - We run that by the mile at work for the desks.
Yes, you'd need a soundcard/interface that can output AES/EBU but you're going to be hard pushed to find anycheap home hifi/audio stuff that runs it as it's primarily a broadcast/pro audio (studio) standard so the hifi stuff gets mighty expensive for AES/EBU.
The nice thing about it that you can run long distances without degradation and one cable does two channels. It uses XLR's (albeit you're meant to use "digital XLRs" but I've never seen normal cause any kind of problem but you do have to use AES suitable cable which has a specific 110ohm impedance). |
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| Senator Clay Davis |
| money isnt a problem, im just looking around to know whats around there. can this one XLR cable support complete 5.1 surround too? my the cable problems would be solved. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Senator Clay Davis
money isnt a problem, im just looking around to know whats around there. can this one XLR cable support complete 5.1 surround too? my the cable problems would be solved. |
Nope. 2 channels per AES cable.
HDMI is the smallest solution out there right now but it's not balanced.
If you want balanced 5.1 then your only options are really balanced analogue or AES/EBU snakes.
You can get small profile ones and Van Damme Cable in the UK make some truly beautiful custom options (any configuration can be ordered form them).
TBH though, I think long HDMI is the way to go - one cable that does all the audio and video. |
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| Senator Clay Davis |
hmm. is there HDMI to AES/EBU decoders? im not sure about surround really. and i dont need any of this in my current apartment but im moving in august probably and then gonna upgrade all this .
edit: I rather just look for a normal USB to AES/EBU encoder, stereo. good ones? how about latency and performance compared to say Echo Audiofire? (mac). |
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