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Lets talk about pads.
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| Aurana |
Now maybe I just don't know how to program them right... or maybe I am choosing the wrong sounds... but for some reason my pads just never seem (to my ears) to enhance my main melody. Every time I seem to put one together it never fails to come out boring instead of massive. Even trying to layer multiple pads together, EQ'ing them accordingly, and panning them apart dont seem to help much. Whats the key to making pads massive? Are there guidelines to follow?
Maybe theirs a good tutorial laying around that I missed...
I found this one awhile back but the guy doesn't explain much.. he kinda just moves along without explaining how each sample works to pull it all together.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNbE...feature=related
Heres a little sample of a track I am in the middle of with just the pads and a piano melody... http://soundcloud.com/phobix/i-suck-at-pads-k-thx - Maybe if you guys hear a sample of what I am talking about it may help with answers. |
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| EddieZilker |
Actually, that's very pretty.
The only thing I can think of, which doesn't apply in every case, is that you might be trying to do too much with the pad. If you'll pardon the hyperbole, a good pad is like a good knife and a good knife doesn't require a lot of work.
A pad doesn't have to follow every single chordal change the rest of your instrumentation is making. If you have a lead playing through compound intervals related to a major chord, the pad doesn't have to follow the flip from one octave to another, to keep up with it. It may need to make small adjustments such as changing from a ninth to a seventh (or to a fifth, or an enharmonic variation), but it doesn't have to abandon its current octave's root, wholesale.
Note: I know what I mean and I think I have the right verbiage for it, but I could be talking out my ass, so if someone more familiar with music theory wants to school me on this, feel free. |
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| Aurana |
You know part of me thought I may have been trying to make the pads too complicated... Which may be the reason why they always stand out of the mix in a foul manor.
Is it just essentially Low Pad, Mid Pad, Hi Pad? I know you usually add a Phaser in at least one to create a bit a movement right? I suppose some trial and error would do the trick... I am working with something as we speak... like adding Vocal chops with crazy delay bouncing around in the background to add character to the atmosphere. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aurana
You know part of me thought I may have been trying to make the pads too complicated... Which may be the reason why they always stand out of the mix in a foul manor.
Is it just essentially Low Pad, Mid Pad, Hi Pad? I know you usually add a Phaser in at least one to create a bit a movement right? I suppose some trial and error would do the trick... I am working with something as we speak... like adding Vocal chops with crazy delay bouncing around in the background to add character to the atmosphere. |
Personally, it's just dependent on the song. Not that you're doing this, pall mall, but I think you might be employing a bit of dogmatic methodology (such as believing that all pads, in a given situation, should have such-and-such effect and always follow a predetermined formula) when really, all what's called for is a little intuition and simplicity.
The one pad sound I have running in my current project consists of a monophonic trumpet sample with an excessively low-attack, high-decay, and a metric--ton of reverb playing across four - maybe five notes - throughout its presence in the song, but I've used pads with phasers, delay, complex chords, compound chords, stacks of synths, et al. It depends on what the song needs. Not what I think it needs.
Not that you're doing this, but I used to get myself into a corner I couldn't get out of, placing a technically elegant but utterly useless track and trying to force it (along with the rest of the mix) into the rest of the mix. I learned to just let go of that part of my ego which wanted to display proficiency, and now, if a new track doesn't pretty much seat itself in the mix, I toss it, instantly.
Usually, what's called for is a much simpler version of what I thought was appropriate before, and the real bonus is that having busted my ass trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, it is tremendously easy to put a round peg where it belongs.
:) |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aurana
You know part of me thought I may have been trying to make the pads too complicated... Which may be the reason why they always stand out of the mix in a foul manor.
Is it just essentially Low Pad, Mid Pad, Hi Pad? I know you usually add a Phaser in at least one to create a bit a movement right? I suppose some trial and error would do the trick... I am working with something as we speak... like adding Vocal chops with crazy delay bouncing around in the background to add character to the atmosphere. |
Is this the entire mix, pads and piano or is there more to the mix than what you posted? |
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| meriter |
| Isn't anyone going to make a period joke? Internet you disappoint me. |
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| Aurana |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
Is this the entire mix, pads and piano or is there more to the mix than what you posted? |
No there is more; I didn't want to throw the main lead in with this because I wanted to get an idea on the pad itself. The main lead (as of now) being in this mix would just make it harder to hear. I would be more then happy to post the rest if you wish. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aurana
No there is more; I didn't want to throw the main lead in with this because I wanted to get an idea on the pad itself. The main lead (as of now) being in this mix would just make it harder to hear. I would be more then happy to post the rest if you wish. |
I don't think you want your pads to be massive, but if you want to make them bigger you can either layer or alter the voice.
So what you can do is take notes for your pads and just duplicate them either an octave below or above.
A good computer music tutorial video is from john fleming. He goes through layering up his pads.
You might be trying to engineer your way out of a compositional problem.
If your pads are playing chords and then your melody is playing only chord tones, the pads aren't going to contrast with the piano and its not going to sound interesting. |
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| Aurana |
| What I had is the piano melody and a wide lead melody... if you check my soundcloud the track below "Full Throttle" is actually this one... well the intro... You can kind of get the feel for what the lead is like towards the end. So basically if I have my piano and lead taking up majority of the space (which it does), then I just need a simple pad to create atmosphere and tie together the melody as a whole? |
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| ambient_chris |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Actually, that's very pretty.
The only thing I can think of, which doesn't apply in every case, is that you might be trying to do too much with the pad. If you'll pardon the hyperbole, a good pad is like a good knife and a good knife doesn't require a lot of work.
A pad doesn't have to follow every single chordal change the rest of your instrumentation is making. If you have a lead playing through compound intervals related to a major chord, the pad doesn't have to follow the flip from one octave to another, to keep up with it. It may need to make small adjustments such as changing from a ninth to a seventh (or to a fifth, or an enharmonic variation), but it doesn't have to abandon its current octave's root, wholesale.
Note: I know what I mean and I think I have the right verbiage for it, but I could be talking out my ass, so if someone more familiar with music theory wants to school me on this, feel free. |
I'm trying to get to grips with theory especially harmony at the moment and pads is something im trying to understand in particular. I like ambient techno and with lots of records i cant hear the pads/strings following the chord progression of the song. It just seems to repeat the same part over a certain number of bars. Does anyone have any recommendations where I can learn more about this please? |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by ambient_chris
It just seems to repeat the same part over a certain number of bars. Does anyone have any recommendations where I can learn more about this please? |
Block triads starting on the downbeat and following four-bar chord progressions are very common. If you want to go beyond that and vary your pads to make them more interesting, look into:
1. counterpoint (start with wikipedia)
2. chord extensions - i.e., go beyond simple triads and start adding 7ths, ninths, 6ths, suspensions, anticipations, etc.
3. changing your timing - for example, rather than having them play on the downbeat, have them come in a little early (e.g., an 1/8th note) or a little/lot late, etc.
| quote: | Originally posted by meriter
Isn't anyone going to make a period joke? |
If you really want the listener to get absorbed, user thicker pads.
Sorry, that's all I got. |
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| PlasticSoul |
Effects are very important on pads: reverb, chorus, phaser, etc...
Wet pads are very interesting, dry pads sounds cheese and ugly. Not a rule, just my opinion. |
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