Originally posted by skyhunter
I remember when Dub was a genre like drum and bass. Asian Dub foundation and such.
'Proper' dub was essentially a variant of reggae which started in the 60s, quite often used a remix style with big snares, loads of echo and a bit of a skank to it:
Asian Dub Foundation dropped elements of dub into various other genres, like breaks, drum 'n' bass, etc
Dubstep used to have a lot more dub influences and the first tracks were essentially a crossover between dub and grime. Then people tore away the dub part and replaced it with ear-piercing electro but carried on using the same name.
There's still a lot of dubstep around with strong dub influences, it just gets a bit overshadowed by the electro-influenced stuff.
That's my take on it all anyway.
kitphillips
Not everyone has done that and there's still a strong DUBstep tradition in a lot of the scene. I went to a party last night where they'd almost taken away the STEP part of it actually.
quote:
Originally posted by Zombie0729
seriously. unfortunately the scenesters that are currently into brostep/drumstep/dubstep/whateverstep/stepwobbledrumorsomething go thru genres like they go thru a pair of converse shoes. every 3 mos they've moved on and took a genre for all it's worth.
Yeah, cuz I'm such a scenester. I'm just sick of people on here ripping on dubstep using skrillex as an example when skrillex isn't actually dubstep. Its ignorant.
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
What the Kit? Not you too?
It's all ing dubstep. Some , some not quite as .
Don't get in to pathetic micro genre bull, especially not with something as new and esoteric as dubstep.
Just becuase Srkillex churns out some commercial stuff you can't then says he not making his Genre.
No one claims that their house is not actually house music anymore because the SHM turn out utter dross. It's just part of the genre and goes with the territory.
Well I don't call most of their material house at all actually. I'd call it closer to prog, anyone who calls them house is pretty off the mark I think. You might get away with commercial house, or electro even (in some cases) but straight house? No way.
I get into genres (not micro genres) because its an effective way for me to think when I'm DJing. I can work out how the set's going to transition between several different sounds. As a producer you might be trying to do the opposite, and try to bring genres together, but as a DJ, you're trying to wedge them apart to better understand how your set will flow.
quote:
Originally posted by Aurana
This may be a long shot but I think Psy trance will break out. The stuff Simon Patterson and the like are coming out with is wicked. I'm just starting to get more into it now and think it may be an avenue I may stroll in some of my future productions.
Psy has been going to break out for the last bloody 7 years, spare me. :rolleyes:
quote:
Originally posted by skyhunter
I remember when Dub was a genre like drum and bass. Asian Dub foundation and such.
Still is. Its like Jamaican dance music basically. Its interesting though, because all these production techniques, and the idea of a producer as an "artist" rather than just a shadowy engineering figure is often thought to have come from dub. Because it was the first genre in which producers got really creative and really changed the sound of the music they were working on.
Richard Butler
quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
the SHM turn out utter dross.
If masses of people like it, how is it dross? It's far better than my sh1t because people want that stuff. My kids instantly love that stuff even the first time played when they do not know who it is. They love Guetta and now Benni Benassi / Chris Brown.
I hear your sentiment in the film critic world to - the guys making stuff that does not sell say the mainstream Hollywood films are cr@p, yet the public want to pay good monmey for the cr@p.
My kids hear me playing all the tracks from these forums including mine and say it's all rubbish - they tell me it all belnds into one - what they mean is nothing has a personality they can engage with.
In painting it's the same - those in the scene want wierd sh1t but the mass public want Turner and other masters.
Film critics like French underground cartoons, yet the public want buggs bunny.
Are the pulic at large just dumber than us, just unthinking morons?
I'm not looking to be confontational but I wonder why is us dudes inside a scene always think commercial stuff in the main is dross?
derail
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Butler
If masses of people like it, how is it dross? It's far better than my sh1t because people want that stuff. My kids instantly love that stuff even the first time played when they do not know who it is. They love Guetta and now Benni Benassi / Chris Brown.
I'm not looking to be confontational but I wonder why is us dudes inside a scene always think commercial stuff in the main is dross?
It's not confrontational at all. A lot of us focus on a whole bunch of details which don't really matter that much to the vast majority of listeners. A big catchy hook will trump excellent engineering every time.
If people can hum it/ sing it, or laugh about it, or dance to it, that's a lot more important than "this song uses the same style of bass as a bunch of other songs" or "this song uses a premade loop for the main melodic hook" or anything like that.
In time we'll all hopefully learn that it's a waste of our time to whinge about brostep/crazy frog/britney spears/country music/the wiggles/twilight/harry potter or whatever else happens to have a heap of fans. Some of these things we'll get into and see the merits of, some of them we won't, but there's no point whingeing about any of them.
clay
theres is no future.
skyhunter
quote:
Originally posted by Stu Cox
'Proper' dub was essentially a variant of reggae which started in the 60s, quite often used a remix style with big snares, loads of echo and a bit of a skank to it:
Asian Dub Foundation dropped elements of dub into various other genres, like breaks, drum 'n' bass, etc
Dubstep used to have a lot more dub influences and the first tracks were essentially a crossover between dub and grime. Then people tore away the dub part and replaced it with ear-piercing electro but carried on using the same name.
There's still a lot of dubstep around with strong dub influences, it just gets a bit overshadowed by the electro-influenced stuff.
That's my take on it all anyway.
Yea I've heard some of the more "traditional" stuff, but so true it gets overshadowed by the electro type stuff.
DJ RANN
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Butler
If masses of people like it, how is it dross? It's far better than my sh1t because people want that stuff. My kids instantly love that stuff even the first time played when they do not know who it is. They love Guetta and now Benni Benassi / Chris Brown.
I hear your sentiment in the film critic world to - the guys making stuff that does not sell say the mainstream Hollywood films are cr@p, yet the public want to pay good monmey for the cr@p.
My kids hear me playing all the tracks from these forums including mine and say it's all rubbish - they tell me it all belnds into one - what they mean is nothing has a personality they can engage with.
In painting it's the same - those in the scene want wierd sh1t but the mass public want Turner and other masters.
Film critics like French underground cartoons, yet the public want buggs bunny.
Are the pulic at large just dumber than us, just unthinking morons?
I'm not looking to be confontational but I wonder why is us dudes inside a scene always think commercial stuff in the main is dross?
You're completely forgetting one very powerful thing; marketing.
I know douchebags who two years ago would have spat on you if you suggested them listening to "gay" house music, yet, hiphop dies commercially, and Guess what? Guetta is rocking a sea of Douchebags.
SHM is exactly the same thing. They churn out lowest common denominator commercial house that the uneducated can get steaming drunk or roll to. These aren't really people in to music. They would club to country if they believed it was the done thing. Ed Hardy isn't popular with that crowd because they make fine garments or have excellent tailoring. Same thing with music.
As for your kids (obviously I don't know them) but to generalise, kids like things they can easily recognise; simply lyrics, obvious sounds and melodies, even gimmicks. That why as we get more selective and educated, these thing matter less and less to us, and we even get cynical about them.
Don't misunderstand me though - I'm all for beautiful simplicity, in fact I think some of the best tracks ever made are that in part becuase they are so simple.
Pryda for instance has made many of my favourite tracks over the last few years and some of them have only a few evry simple elements but they are so well arranged and clever in content that it just astounds me.
Britney is the same(Rann braces for serious flack) - some of her earlier tracks are pop genius. They stay in your head for days.
SHM is not this sort of brilliance.
What i'm saying is that there's a place for commercial and when it's done well like great pop, it's ing brilliant, but so many like Guetta/SHM/Afrojack/etc just are turning out disposable commercial fodder for the educated masses, and that's fine, but don't say it's good just because a lot of people seem to be in to it.
-FSP-
Richard Butler is right. I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with anything mainstream. A lot of what is so-called mainstream is 5-7 years behind, but that doesn't mean it's bad.
Afrojack is an example of great mainstream music imo. I find his song "i'll be there" pretty amazing. I love the portamento vowel lead in that song. It's creative, I don't think there is any denying this even if you don't like the song.
Not trying to be confrontational, and hopefully my tone doesn't exert hostility. I try to contribute to discussion.
skyhunter
quote:
Originally posted by -FSP-
Afrojack is an example of great mainstream music imo. I find his song "i'll be there" pretty amazing. I love the portamento vowel lead in that song. It's creative, I don't think there is any denying this even if you don't like the song.
Afrojack is really amazing. All I have to say really. :haha:
-FSP-
I like a lot of what might be labeled as darker or underground dance music. That's what the vast majority of my music library consists of.
The thing is, dance music is dance music and in the end the DJ wants to please everyone and keep everyone dancing. The mainstream dance music is focused on making 'DJ music', and not 'chin stroking, trainspotter, serious guy' music. Since it's DJ music, that's why it's meant for the lowest common denominator.
Don't see anything wrong with that. I mean, I LOVE korean girl band music. That whole scene is manufactured and kind of campy and kitschy which is why I like it. I am also the douche bag in the club who is a 'chin stroking, trainspotting, serious guy' and when I listen to Korean girl bands, I laugh at my self for enjoying such cheese.
Sometimes I find the so-called 'underground' part of dance music too serious, because you have to admit that a lot of it just chin stroke music (which doesn't make it bad), not dance music. And I also think it's messed up that there are underground releases that are vinyl only.
1 and a half stars? Come on now. Quit being so damn pretentious!
Scrittah
quote:
Originally posted by -FSP-
Don't see anything wrong with that. I mean, I LOVE korean girl band music. That whole scene is manufactured and kind of campy and kitschy which is why I like it. I am also the douche bag in the club who is a 'chin stroking, trainspotting, serious guy' and when I listen to Korean girl bands, I laugh at my self for enjoying such cheese.
Totally understandable. I even find Basshunter enjoyable if I'm in the right mood.
quote:
Originally posted by -FSP-
I like a lot of what might be labeled as darker or underground dance music. That's what the vast majority of my music library consists of.
I'd be interested to know what you mean by underground dance music. Sorry if that sounds a little pretentious, but I'd honestly like to understand what you mean. I mean, when I think of underground dance music, I usually think of the more extreme stuff: Goa, EBM, Rhythmic Noise, Breakcore, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by -FSP- And I also think it's messed up that there are underground releases that are vinyl only.
Eh. I'd be pissed if they were just releasing it on vinyl because vinyl is kewl now, but if they legimately see it as the superior release format - whether because of the quality or whatever - then that's fine by me. It's no more ridiculous than only releasing something digitally.
1 and a half stars? Come on now. Quit being so damn pretentious!
While I do admit that that review seems a little pretentious, I don't think that just because he dislikes it that he's automatically a pompous . He is entitled to his own opinion, after all.
skyhunter
quote:
Originally posted by Scrittah
While I do admit that that review seems a little pretentious, I don't think that just because he dislikes it that he's automatically a pompous . He is entitled to his own opinion, after all.
Exactly! People press their personal opinions as if they are true! Well that's just IMO. :)
