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Joplin, Missouri Tornado (pg. 2)
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| Lilith |
Do they have any special building codes in these areas?
Just that in the most frequently hit storm areas here they have to build structures to withstand category 4 storms of up to 280km/hr and it seems when the US gets hit that these tornado areas, everything is completely torn to bits. |
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| DancingMonkey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Do they have any special building codes in these areas?
Just that in the most frequently hit storm areas here they have to build structures to withstand category 4 storms of up to 280km/hr and it seems when the US gets hit that these tornado areas, everything is completely torn to bits. |
This tornado was almost twice as powerful as the most powerful hurricane.
So I guess the answer to that is when someone discovers a way of damage proofing against a tornado that's over half a mile wide with winds around 300 miles per hour, they'll implement the building codes. |
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| Jackson |
| I was wondering that too - I remember reading when the other big tornados hit a few weeks back that most houses didn't have basements as the ground was too hard. Could they not build community shelters (like the ones they had over here in WW2)? |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by DancingMonkey
This tornado was almost twice as powerful as the most powerful hurricane.
So I guess the answer to that is when someone discovers a way of damage proofing against a tornado that's over half a mile wide with winds around 300 miles per hour, they'll implement the building codes. |
From what I read it was 200mph, not 300.
But they can make homes survive around 200-250km/h, when north Australia got hit by a Cat-5 cyclone (300+km/h) a few years ago it didn't do nearly so much damage as expected to housing simply because they're literally built like a tank (everything else got thrashed!)
Just looking at the news, the houses destroyed are made out of wood, tiles and not the double cinder block thickness's they use in some places like Darwin and Townsville. |
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| DancingMonkey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
From what I read it was 200mph, not 300.
But they can make homes survive around 200-250km/h, when north Australia got hit by a Cat-5 cyclone (300+km/h) a few years ago it didn't do nearly so much damage as expected to housing simply because they're literally built like a tank (everything else got thrashed!)
Just looking at the news, the houses destroyed are made out of wood, tiles and not the double cinder block thickness's they use in some places like Darwin and Townsville. |
Oh, I was looking at the old tornado scale. An EF-5 starts at 200 mph now. Still, for some reason tornadoes seem to be able to do more damage. Another 200 mph tornado a few weeks ago completely leveled a distribution center in alabama...a warehouse with walls of solid concrete. |
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| DancingMonkey |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
From what I read it was 200mph, not 300.
But they can make homes survive around 200-250km/h, when north Australia got hit by a Cat-5 cyclone (300+km/h) a few years ago it didn't do nearly so much damage as expected to housing simply because they're literally built like a tank (everything else got thrashed!) |
I'm curious as to which cyclone you're referring. The most recent cyclone near Australia with that power was in 1996 (cyclone Olivia), and that didn't destroy much because all of the 400+ km/h winds were at sea.
The wind speeds in a hurricane or cyclone aren't that constant. These storms are hundreds of miles in diameter. Just because a cyclone had a max recorded wind speed of X km/h doesn't mean those winds went ripping through populated areas. These aren't 500-1000 mile wide tornadoes, they're big storms. A tornado focuses constant massive destructive power onto a relatively small area. A cyclone or hurricane causes minor winds, major winds, minor tornadoes, hail, rain, most of which i'm guessing occur out at sea. |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
From what I read it was 200mph, not 300.
But they can make homes survive around 200-250km/h, when north Australia got hit by a Cat-5 cyclone (300+km/h) a few years ago it didn't do nearly so much damage as expected to housing simply because they're literally built like a tank (everything else got thrashed!)
Just looking at the news, the houses destroyed are made out of wood, tiles and not the double cinder block thickness's they use in some places like Darwin and Townsville. |
keep in mind most cities like Joplin are pretty old and most homes are built out of just brick/mortar and/or wood/aluminum siding.
generally speaking, it's not cost-effective to built a house made to withstand such destruction when it doesn't happen that often. and the infamous "tornado alley" is so large, to retrofit every building would be near impossible.
the strength and destruction of tornadoes are so incredibly random. it's not just 200mph winds and that's it, it's 200 mph winds + debris + curvature around the funnel itself.
think about your car...driving in a straight line you only have one force up against you. but if you drive the same speed in a circle, you've got multiple forces against you now. these kind of forces are what rip things apart (plus debris flying at 200mph at a house, the house just doesn't stand a chance).
i'm not familiar w/ the storm you mentioned. who knows, maybe midwestern architects could learn something from what you're mentioning. but then again maybe the cost factor has just simply exhausted it.
Tornadoes like Joplin, Greensburg, and Moore are not as common as one would think. and they're really small in comparison to the amount of land that they travel though. sure, 1mile wide tornado is huge, no doubt. but think of how many square miles are in say Missouri, Kansas, and Oklahoma. and since "severe weather season" is typically only a few months of the year (generally speaking of course), events like this just don't happen that often.
but then again places in california are retrofitted for earthquakes and devastating ones like the san fran one don't happen that often either. so who knows.
the death toll in Joplin is up to 122 now. there were 12 more killed yesterday across OK/AR/KS. sad :( very sad :( |
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| gmilf |
Not only are the houses not capable of withstanding such winds. Missouri has a very high percentage of modular housing units. Its nothing against them, some of those are actually a lot nicer than regular brick and mortar houses, especially now that they have triple wides with an upstairs that they can set on a basement. The stereotypes of trailers aren't really up to date. However, they are by no means capable of withstanding a tornado.
It used to be a lot more common for people to have storm shelters that were underground. This has went out of fashion it seems, but it really should be required to have access to some sort of underground storm shelter if you do not have a basement of your own. |
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| tubularbills |
| quote: | Originally posted by gmilf
Not only are the houses not capable of withstanding such winds. Missouri has a very high percentage of modular housing units. Its nothing against them, some of those are actually a lot nicer than regular brick and mortar houses, especially now that they have triple wides with an upstairs that they can set on a basement. The stereotypes of trailers aren't really up to date. However, they are by no means capable of withstanding a tornado.
It used to be a lot more common for people to have storm shelters that were underground. This has went out of fashion it seems, but it really should be required to have access to some sort of underground storm shelter if you do not have a basement of your own. |
if like this hits a house, it's just done for,
i drive down this road all the time to go to Oklahoma City...
center part of your house: if you don't have a shelter, you need to go here:
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| Imagin |
| Guy I work with out here in Okinawa thats his home town. I think yesterday was the first time hed really gotten to watch the news and what happened... thankfully hes gettin on a plane to head home for a bit. |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by DancingMonkey
I'm curious as to which cyclone you're referring. The most recent cyclone near Australia with that power was in 1996 (cyclone Olivia), and that didn't destroy much because all of the 400+ km/h winds were at sea. |
Sorry for the wiki-link but its relatively accurate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005-0..._cyclone_season
Take your pick, quite a few of the Cat-5 ones made landfall, the only real reason they don't kill as many people is they're far more predictable so everyone runs like hell when the big ones come in and comparatively low populations in those areas.
Still, even a small bunker or something with some decent building codes I'd think would save a lot of lives, human cost for the Joplin one is just awful. |
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