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Creating a Clear and Smooth distinction between Elements in Your Track
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| Stevemarble |
Been listening to artists who create what I think are super high quality productions recently and reflecting upon what key traits they all share. Regardless of what you think about there actual songs, there are certain techniques that you can use to improve the quality of your productions.
But what separates the highest quality productions from the crowd?
One key things I've noticed is how they separate elements or particular sounds. For example, if you listen to anything produced by WIppenberg, Orjan Nilsen, or Deadmau5, you might notice that no frequencies conflict but also, that there's a distinction and smoothness separating each sound. If you don't know what I'm talking about listen to Finished Symphony by Deadmau5, Kidsos by Wippenberg, or La guitarra by Orjan.
The effect appears to be having the main/core/key element the most prominent which all other sounds building around it in a subtle but clear way.
How do you think they achieve this quality?
Of course production is an art that takes time to master but certain techniques can take you there faster. Recently I've started layering sounds, panning them, and rolling off high and low frequences (as well as low and hi cuts) to create more power and oommphhh but I've yet to be able to achieve the kind of clear and prominent clarity that these artists have.
Also, it appears that they use a lot of mono sounds that are panned and eqed to fit.
Do you know any other techniques for creating a clear separation between a higher frequency and lower sound?
More specifically, is there a filter or a way to create the same affect in logic where you can let one sound pass below and another sound pass above?
For example, say you've got a midbass and a pad (which has a higher frequency range). Is it possible to create a setup where a filter controls the lowpass on the midbass and the high pass on the pad in the same channel or at the same time?
I'm thinking this could create a much clearer distinction or smoothness between sounds than my current technique which involves running HP and LP filters on each sound in their own channel.
If you'd care to share the love and share your thoughts I'm sure the community would be much appreciative.
Cheers
Steve |
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| Morvan |
| It's mostly compression what you perceive as punchy and clear and non-conflicting (sidechain). I personally do not perceive it as clean, the compression makes it lack dynamics. |
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| Inner Sanctum |
Compression can smear a mix easier than it can define individual elements, if you're not careful. Getting a clear mix is actually simpler than it seems: just follow fundamental mixing guidelines. Pan parts with overlapping frequencies apart, use various amounts of reverb/delay to push parts back in the mix, minimize the number of different reverbs used in order to keep all parts in the same sonic space, and decide which part(s) will be the focus and which parts will support it (iow try not to have all parts competing for attention). Follow good EQing principles. Finally, minimize the number of parts - a classic newb mistake is to have far too many parts, rather than a few parts that are each interesting. That's where a solid knowledge of theory is helpful - a good working knowledge of harmony can help you make the most of each part.
Also, be careful with layering. It's too easy to consume too much space by layering too much. |
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| skyhunter |
I've noticed changes of clarity in different parts of the song.
This isn't a super dramatic, but there is a lot of blur building up to the drop, and a lot of atmospheric elements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev4CcUje9DY
Then when the drop hits, it strips down bare (you perverts) and is soloed on the bass and some background noises. Then is slowly adds the background elements back in with the pads and such.
I think the effect is that it spaces you out at first then the contrast hits you and BOOM! you share it on another social networking site. |
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| derail |
Fundamentally, it comes from sound selection. A set of really solid sounds which work extremely well together, then complementary sounds which fill in the gaps but don't impact on the core elements.
Yes, filtering/EQing away the parts of sounds that aren't required is very important, but only helps if the initial sounds already fit together well. You can end up making sounds too thin or bassy. They'll be separated, but the sounds will have lost a massive part of their character and the end result won't be what you're after.
Some lead sounds only have a very minimal amount of low end cut away, yet still sound great in a mix and don't get in the way of the bass/ mid bass area. Everything sounds full and rich and detailed. This only happens if the original sounds fit together well.
The best way to get better at this (in my experience) is to practice putting sounds together. Choose a stock chord progression/melody and put together ten (or a hundred) different sets of sounds based on that progression. Don't worry about creating songs or anything else, just focus on whether the bass feels right for the kick (or vice versa). Focus on whether the pad feels right for the bass foundation you've established. Whether the lead feels right relative to everything else.
Put together a whole bunch of mixes and you'll soon realise that you've spent too much time trying to EQ/filter/squish together sounds which don't quite belong together. If you put together a hundred sets of sounds, half may be absolute rubbish, twenty or thirty may be serviceable, ten or twenty may be decent, and five or ten should be better than anything you've done before.
Those five or ten mixes, and the process of getting to them, will teach you a lot about separation/clarity/solidity. |
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| TranceElevation |
The first thing you're probably omiting is that those artists you listed create mainly progressive slow tempo tracks. For the genre they produce also, isn't really common to put a lot of elements.
Let me see them make some uplifting/epic tracks ala Onova or n2o. You'll realize their mixes are not that amazing actually.
Though I recon some tracks are particularly clean and professional sounding.
Put in the account hi end soundcard, gear, sounds...and you're almost there.
Anyway, if you wanna hear something really professional: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpGuBmmy2hw |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by derail
Fundamentally, it comes from sound selection. A set of really solid sounds which work extremely well together, then complementary sounds which fill in the gaps but don't impact on the core elements.
Yes, filtering/EQing away the parts of sounds that aren't required is very important, but only helps if the initial sounds already fit together well. You can end up making sounds too thin or bassy. They'll be separated, but the sounds will have lost a massive part of their character and the end result won't be what you're after.
Some lead sounds only have a very minimal amount of low end cut away, yet still sound great in a mix and don't get in the way of the bass/ mid bass area. Everything sounds full and rich and detailed. This only happens if the original sounds fit together well.
The best way to get better at this (in my experience) is to practice putting sounds together. Choose a stock chord progression/melody and put together ten (or a hundred) different sets of sounds based on that progression. Don't worry about creating songs or anything else, just focus on whether the bass feels right for the kick (or vice versa). Focus on whether the pad feels right for the bass foundation you've established. Whether the lead feels right relative to everything else.
Put together a whole bunch of mixes and you'll soon realise that you've spent too much time trying to EQ/filter/squish together sounds which don't quite belong together. If you put together a hundred sets of sounds, half may be absolute rubbish, twenty or thirty may be serviceable, ten or twenty may be decent, and five or ten should be better than anything you've done before.
Those five or ten mixes, and the process of getting to them, will teach you a lot about separation/clarity/solidity. |
+1 good point
Needs a youtube tut. |
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| MegaMan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Beatflux
+1 good point
Needs a youtube tut. |
yes indeed, thats how i do it as well. Sometimes i go through hundreds of preset in 10 days just to find the right one to tweak. I guess its a very subjective process. I think theres a book called the art of mixing by david gibson. heres the link "http://www.amazon.com/Art-Mixing-Mix-Pro-Audio/dp/0918371171" . i would definatelly recommend it. |
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| skyhunter |
Yea I think sound choice has a lot to do with it.
Now adays when I pick sounds I ask myself, "but will it blend?"
:P |
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| madmuso |
High and Low pass filters definately play an important role in getting a good clean mix. I used to solo my sounds when applying low or high pass filters which wasnt doing me any favours. I find you get better and surprising results by having the entire track playing while you tweek a sounds low or high pass filter. It makes sense when you think about it, for example, if you want to see if two paint colours work together do you just look at one of the colours on their own? or is it easier and more affective to hold a swab of both colours next to each other to see if they work together?
I do this a lot when searching for sounds too. If I am searching for a lead sound and I have already played the part in, I let the song play (all parts playing) and just scroll through my available lead sounds, this way you get to hear how it will sit in the mix and usualy the right sound will be obvious and let your ears know in a second. If you select the correct sounds from the start, mixing will be easier.
Someone once explained it to me like this, audio is like sonic real estate, If you decide to build 5 houses on a very long street then you can afford to build 5 big houses and take up all the available space, but, if you decide to build 50 houses on that same street then the houses have to be smaller to fit in. The audio spectrum can be viewed in a similar way.
Hope this helps,
cheers |
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| sot |
agreed
choice of sounds is key coupled with a room with proper monitors and acoustic treatment should ultimately help you find those sounds easier as it'll pretty much be a slap in the face if your going through sounds if one interferes with the other frequency wise |
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