|
Winnipeg Welcomes the NHL (pg. 2)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
IMO key words are "this year". Long term wise I don't think it's sustainable in pretty much all those southern American cities for one reason, lack of rinks due to weather. If your fans aren't raised with hockey around them, never played it, likely can't even skate etc. then you're going to have trouble sustaining income through the rebuilding stages almost every team hits. If you look at Dallas they were once upon a time quite the successful and financially viable team. Now that their performance is down they're falling apart. Same thing with Carolina not so long ago winning the cup and now are struggling.
If Bettman was actually smart and wanted his ego to survive he'd resign now and let a new guy clean up the mess he's made with all these teams. You're going to see a lot more of these Thrashers type deals go through in the next 10 years if you ask me. |
Bettman just resigned this season.
Most US Markets are fickle with most their sports teams....football would be the one sport that seems to survive in most markets, regardless of success. If they have a winning team then people will show up, if not, the place stays empty. Even Chicago a few years ago was only getting 12,000 a game.
All that being said, I don't think moving the teams to Canada is the answer either...especially markets like Winnipeg and Quebec City. Winnipeg may get 14,000 to 15,000 for every game (the place only holds 15,000) but having a team in Winnipeg doesn't really help grow the sport or bring in that much more revenue for the league. If you get every person in Manitoba watching the Winnipeg team that is only approximately 1.2 million people. The greater Atlanta area has over 5 million people and the state has close to 10 million people. There is so much more potential for revenue in a place like Atlanta. The problem in Atlanta was simply the ownership sucked and in 11 years they never even made the playoffs I believe. If Atlanta had a consistent playoff team they would have been successful. If more teams move from the states to Canada then the NHL will end up loosing out on big TV contracts again. This was the best time to move Atlanta since the NHL just signed a 10 year 200 million dollar a year TV deal. |
|
|
| Spin Laden |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
IMO key words are "this year". Long term wise I don't think it's sustainable in pretty much all those southern American cities for one reason, lack of rinks due to weather. If your fans aren't raised with hockey around them, never played it, likely can't even skate etc. then you're going to have trouble sustaining income through the rebuilding stages almost every team hits. If you look at Dallas they were once upon a time quite the successful and financially viable team. Now that their performance is down they're falling apart. Same thing with Carolina not so long ago winning the cup and now are struggling.
If Bettman was actually smart and wanted his ego to survive he'd resign now and let a new guy clean up the mess he's made with all these teams. You're going to see a lot more of these Thrashers type deals go through in the next 10 years if you ask me. |
the cultural variable may have as much an impact as the climate one your suggesting, perhaps even more. Not too much outdoor ice hockey where I grew up (lower mainland BC) but hockey is cultural so it thrives there and thus there are no shortage of indoor rinks for those who can afford to play organized hockey.
San Jose and LA do not have many rinks, relatively speaking, but the teams aren't in danger of moving. As Chem noted, the performance of the team is a huge factor. All those teams rumoured to be leaving (Islanders, Panthers, RIP Thrashers) are all crappy teams. Phoenix is an exception so yeah, that truly is a questionable market.
But yeah, a good economy helps too. At one point attendance was average in Vancouver and most of the Canadian teams at were having financial issues (with Toronto being the only exception). Now with the dollar on par, we are thriving. Canadian franchises can get away with poorer performances on the ice but mixed with a bad economy, it can spell doom for almost anyone.
Personally, I'd rather have seen the team move to Seattle (with a new arena) rather than Winnipeg :p |
|
|
| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spin Laden
Personally, I'd rather have seen the team move to Seattle (with a new arena) rather than Winnipeg :p |
If Bettman could have found an owner there I'm sure he would have done it. Its one of the very few top 20 US TV Markets where there isn't a team. |
|
|
| Spin Laden |
| I would think they need a new arena too, that's why they lost the Sonics. But it is also a potentially good hockey market. Seattle (along with Portland) supported its junior hockey quite well and of course a natural rivalry may have developed between Seattle and Vancouver. |
|
|
| Spin Laden |
| Chem, I just did my 16th edit of the above post.. I think I make more sense during comedowns. :p |
|
|
| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spin Laden
Chem, I just did my 16th edit of the above post.. I think I make more sense during comedowns. :p |
:stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
The most likely US markets to get teams would be Seattle and Kansas City. Bettman has been pushing hard for a team in Kansas City for awhile now.
The GTA will not get an existing team. The NHL is waiting for when they eventually expand again to put a team in Toronto. The Leafs may not like it but legally if 22 owners agree to a new team in Toronto the leafs won't be able to do anything about it. The reason the league is waiting is because of the huge expansion fee they can get. The league would be looking at 3-400 million as an expansion fee. |
|
|
| Spin Laden |
Atlanta is a funny market and I think it would be like Phoenix in that even a successful team may not get the support. I look at the Braves and the Hawks, two good sports teams that don't have high attendance. The Falcons do well but then again it's only eight home games and they have a team that is very promising.
Denver and Dallas are dropping off but if those teams start winning they will fill the arenas again. Buffalo, St Louis and Chicago, Boston, those teams are doing well again so yeah, winning (or the potential to win) is a big factor and I think the US economy is turning around too so that should aid the NHL too.
I think the salary cap and these defensively well-coached teams have helped create more parity so we are seeing more and more competitive hockey right down to the end of the regular season. With more teams having a chance to make the playoffs, it makes for more meaningful games and higher overall attendance as a result. The NFL has had that for quite sometime, and I think we're seeing it more with hockey. The fact that baseball has expanded its playoff format has probably helped overall attendance there too.
NBA is getting more parity as well, and I'm sure after the next CBA we may see a more level playing field...... with the Raptors being the exception :stongue: |
|
|
| GGM |
I definitely don't think that all the teams I believe will fail should be moved north of the border, that would be overkill. I just think you have to ask yourself some questions when you pile out of the rink and see rows of palm trees. Or when you can get tickets to a game from $10-15 thanks to subsidizing a team that would fold without it.
To further my point on a global basis look at all the countries that are into hockey outside of North America. Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czech etc. All cold and natural breeding grounds for rinks. It's definitely a cultural thing as well like Spin says but I think part of the culture derives from just leaving in a cooler climate whether there's outdoor rinks are not.
I'm not saying you can't succeed in the southern markets it's just always going to be a struggle and an uphill battle. If you're playing well you can fill a stadium but with caps in place rebuilding phases are inevitable (unless you're Detroit). Mix a rebuilding phase or low quality team with a recession, bad owner, need for new stadium etc. and you have a team ready to move. |
|
|
| Spin Laden |
if the cap is managed properly you don't always have to rebuild. It takes sound management and a bit of luck, however, imo.
Amazing how Toronto can miss the playoffs all these years, and still fill the building with AHL-level teams :p |
|
|
| Spin Laden |
| forgot about obvious teams like Washington and Pittsburgh, Tampa, a high, successful draft pick def helps too even though the frist two have been longtime hockey markets. I look for the Islanders to do some good things in the future. If they get a new rink, watch out. |
|
|
| Rodrico |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spin Laden
forgot about obvious teams like Washington and Pittsburgh, Tampa, a high, successful draft pick def helps too even though the frist two have been longtime hockey markets. I look for the Islanders to do some good things in the future. If they get a new rink, watch out. |
I wouldnt be surprised if the Islanders made the playoffs next year in like the 7th spot or 6th. |
|
|
| Rodrico |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
IMO key words are "this year". Long term wise I don't think it's sustainable in pretty much all those southern American cities for one reason, lack of rinks due to weather. If your fans aren't raised with hockey around them, never played it, likely can't even skate etc. then you're going to have trouble sustaining income through the rebuilding stages almost every team hits. If you look at Dallas they were once upon a time quite the successful and financially viable team. Now that their performance is down they're falling apart. Same thing with Carolina not so long ago winning the cup and now are struggling.
If Bettman was actually smart and wanted his ego to survive he'd resign now and let a new guy clean up the mess he's made with all these teams. You're going to see a lot more of these Thrashers type deals go through in the next 10 years if you ask me. |
Well last year wasnt so bad for them either, from what I've read, and now is a growing market in that area, they fill up alot of seats with cash paying tickets that arent executive seats given away. They actually do very well in those aspects, and also have 14600 avg. attendance. Which is just 2.5k avg short of full attendance, ofcourse they have smaller attendance during football season, but finish the season strong as soon as it NFL season ends. I dont see Nashville being in any trouble of leaving for quiet some time. But regardless thats just Nashville, and the same case as much of the other troubled southern teams. |
|
|
|
|
