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FAO: jennypie RE: Caregiving vs Killing? (pg. 2)
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by ziptnf
I assume they felt that Stephanie shouldered all the responsibility when she could have just said " off old cunt you're going to the nursing home". |
Yeah, but can you imagine what might go through Stephanie's head? I don't know if you've ever cared for a disabled person, but you begin to realize their (obvious) dependency on an emotional level, and it doesn't become hard to infer that they'd certainly wither up and die just on principle were they shipped off to some sort of hospice or whatever. " off you silly old bint" sounds all good and fine until you have to be the one to tell her that. As well as the rest of your family. |
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| ziptnf |
| You're absolutely right, and I feel like she didn't take her out of respect for her wishes and her feelings rather than her physical condition. ed up nonetheless. |
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| srussell0018 |
| She probably should have taken her once she got to around 60lbs. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| /IGK standards |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
She probably should have taken her once she got to around 60lbs. |
What significance does that have? Her weight/physical condition would have been irrelevant if she declined care. The only issue I can really see here is that she possibly failed to provide proper end of life/palliative care/comfort measures for her grandma, but again - we can't know that for sure unless the woman did have her wishes outlined in an advance directive document. |
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| srussell0018 |
Actually a similar situation just recently happened with my grandfather. He had Pulmonary Fibrosis for the past few years, and had to have oxygen pretty much 24/7. This limited his mobility a bit, but he was still essentially self-sufficient living with my Grandmother. About a month ago he developed Pneumonia, which in hindsight was probably a death sentence for someone with already damaged lungs. Despite all this, and despite my grandmother's suggestion, he still wanted to stay at home, and not move into hospice care or anything like that. Apparently it got to the point where he couldn't even put on his socks and shoes in the morning because he would get too out of breath. (My grandmother kind of kept this fact from our family for the past month.) He died Saturday night after walking up the stairs to bed, and even as he struggled to breath, his last wishes were that my grandmother not call 911. So in a certain sense, part of me feels like he could have lived a bit longer had he had the constant care of a nursing home or hospice, but at the same time, I know he most certainly didn't want that. He got to die at home with his wife, without paramedics pounding on his chest frantically in an ambulance.
In the end I feel like you really need to just go on what the person in question wants, and not what you feel should have been done. He died the way he wanted to die, and that's really the only thing that matters. (Although the extremes of the OP are quite hard to overlook when considering that case). |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
What significance does that have? Her weight/physical condition would have been irrelevant if she declined care. The only issue I can really see here is that she possibly failed to provide proper end of life/palliative care/comfort measures for her grandma, but again - we can't know that for sure unless the woman did have her wishes outlined in an advance directive document. |
Even if someone has a DNR, aren't they still required to feed/nourish them? A grown human weighing 35lbs kind of sounds like they were extremely malnourished. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Even if someone has a DNR, aren't they still required to feed/nourish them? A grown human weighing 35lbs kind of sounds like they were extremely malnourished. |
Not necessarily if they're palliative. Feeding and is contraindicated for the dying body. Usually care is centered around hydration, mouth care with ice chips or mouth swabs, skin care, and pain control/comfort.
And a DNR is totally different from and advanced directive. ADs are more detailed and specific about the kind of care the person wants or doesn't want. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
In the end I feel like you really need to just go on what the person in question wants, and not what you feel should have been done. |
Absolutely. This is why there are always ethical dilemmas with substitute decision makers, POAs, etc. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Miss Pie
Absolutely. This is why there are always ethical dilemmas with substitute decision makers, POAs, etc. |
How do you feel about doctors obtaining court orders to deny a patient's request if they believe that the patient isn't mentally fit enough to make such requests? Is it really the doctor's duty to respect the decision of an at least seriously flawed mind, if they know that the decision being made will ultimately lead to death? |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
How do you feel about doctors obtaining court orders to deny a patient's request if they believe that the patient isn't mentally fit enough to make such requests? Is it really the doctor's duty to respect the decision of an at least seriously flawed mind, if they know that the decision being made will ultimately lead to death? |
A doctor's job first and foremost is to do no harm and maximize good. Beneficence and non-maleficence. So if a capacity assessment reveals that the person neither understands the situation or appreciates the consequences, then yes it is perfectly within the Dr's scope to refuse a patient's request - if the Dr. feels it will not benefit the client.
These are never easy decisions to make and require collaboration of the whole health care team + family or substitute decision maker/POA. |
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| Renzo |
| YOU ARE SO TRANSPARENT, JENNIFER |
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