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How EDM Vocalists See The Industry
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| cryophonik |
Interesting read and, as someone who has worked with dozens, if not hundreds, of singers of all genres over the past few decades, this very topic is something that I can relate to. Actually, a few years back, I made a decision to stop crediting my vocal tracks as "cryophonik feat. [singer]" and, instead, started crediting the songs as the singer and myself, provided that it truly was a collaborative effort. But, I'm also in a bit of a different position relative to that article in that I collaborate with the same group of singers, rather than hire them on as as-needed basis.
That said, I found it interesting that the article pointed out the "f" word ("featuring"). I've had discussions with singers about that in the past and I'm not sure that there is anything inappropriate about it. The word simply indicates to the audience that there is a vocalist highlighted in the song and credits her name. I don't see how that needs to mean, or even imply, that she/he didn't contribute in other meaningful ways to the song. And, it's not unique to EDM - off the top of my head, orchestral music is full of similarities in both recorded and live performances, where the conducter's name is often first, followed by the orchestra's name, followed by the featured soloist's name (if any).
| quote: | Originally posted by CalvP
"Be careful who you upset on your way up, because you will meet them again on your way down." |
I like that quote. |
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| clay |
can someone sum up? im not interested in reading all that.
what is the view? |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by clay
can someone sum up? im not interested in reading all that.
what is the view? |
And people call Americans lazy? :)
Summary: vocalists are neurotic and insecure and they are demanding more attention and credit than they already get (IOW, nothing new). |
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| clay |
lol thats what i thought :)
thanks for helping me saving time :p |
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| Zombie0729 |
oh geez, here we go. look from a legal standpoint if she wrote the lyrics, the melody AND recorded it herself then she's obviously owed a writing share, how much should have been determined long before she wrote a lyric. She wrote that sessions singers aren't used anymore, total crap, I've used a dozen myself in the last year. I use session singers because a.) they're usually way more trained b.) way more versed (see what i did there?) c.) and have WAY MORE professionalism. I'd rather pay someone for their time, get what I want out of it and everyone's happy. I've offered session singers writing shares for helping w/ melodies & lyrics, some have said yes, others no.
She has an issue not being kept in the loop on tracks, well to be frank most producers are kept in the total dark about their releases. You might get an email that's like "your track is out next month" but to be fair to the vocalist if she's a writer/contributor then she should be on the contract or at least have a contract w/ the producer.
Anyways, guys read this, if you know what you're doing, have a few hundred to spend on a quality voice then reach out to your big studios in your area, say you want an hour of studio time and a session singer. Write the melodies & lyrics for her, be there when she sings it and you'll get some awesome results. I can't wait to show you guys my album and what a few, very talented session singers can do to a track :) |
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| Stef |
Its just amazing how many vocalists want full credit on a track that they sang 2-4 lines over. If I produce the entire song, write every melody and have to fix up your singing mistakes with multiple edits the singer should appreciate it even saying featuring in the title.
This happened recently to me where the vocalist didn't even want my name to be on the track and only hers... I removed her vocals and made the song into a more catchy instrumental version. |
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| skyhunter |
I read it. Interesting. I never really thought too much of singers in EDM, most of the tracks I listen to have no lyrics, and if they do it's not full blown singing.
Maybe that's why I'm not a SHM fan, I listened to the instrumental of "One" and heard it was complete crap. :P |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by CalvP
A great vocal can turn an average track into an undisputed classic & that must not be forgotten.
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I want an example.
I can think of a track where vocals ruin a classic. Check out "The Reason(Niton)." |
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| Vernon Wanderer |
| quote: | Originally posted by CalvP
"Be careful who you upset on your way up, because you will meet them again on your way down." |
See sig. :gsmile:
Anyway, interesting read.. However, when it comes to crediting, there is no normative, but if it's a few liner that you came up with, there is no point on crediting her at all, imo. She's just a sample provider then.. Just like another VSTi, in my opinion.. However, it it is really a collaboration between two persons, ofc you give a credit to both of you + the share.. |
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| Normie |
| quote: | Originally posted by CalvP
Great post Eric:)
What can really be said about the article? other than nodding in agreement & wondering why so many of the producers she mentions, seemingly lack any semblance of respect or appreciation. I suppose the situation is akin to going to a job interview & not getting a call back, even one just to say "thanks, but sorry no go". |
Same kinda thing doing gun for hire in the writing world. I did one bit for a book and had to ride the publisher for a couple months for info. Finally saw the book at the bookstore one day and bought it myself. Got my check a couple weeks later but none of the promised free copies ;(
Problem is that many people in general don't respect work anymore or the people who do it. Lots of 'use once and throw away' mentality 'bosses' to be found across the employment spectrum and I doubt EDM is any different. I think she's right on a lot of points, but yea, she comes across as kinda Diva/nuerotic with 'LSD'... Lead Singer Disease ;)
Better idea... Do what I did. Since I'm an old guy I had the presence of mind to have a kid (well she's 22 now so not really a kid ;)that can actually sing very well, I'm gonna start using her for vocals pretty soon. Of course I still have my Vocaloid software for when she goes all Miley Cyrus on me... OK so I didn't REALLY think that far ahead but ya gotta use the resources you got ;) |
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| Lolo |
definitely a sign of times. Everything in this industry is FAKE.
Who cares about the singer/songwriter on the latest superstar dj record? he gets all the credit while he does nothing on the track itself and the real artists get forgotten, isn't that a little bit ironic, the muppet doing almost nothing behind the decks gets all the credit, WOW. Reminds me of the Steve Angello video earlier this week.
You want an example with one big guy? Piece of cake. David Guetta has his tracks produced by a guy called Fred Rister and most vocals were sung by regulars such as Jd Davis (aka Dave Davis, the marvellous dj who did transfiguration, les sabotages, and a few others on Bonzai, yes, the very same one) , chris willis (love don't let me go) and a few others. Those people get utilized by a muppet and might as well get fired all of a sudden. When you can work with U2 and the Black Eyed Peas, why bother working with JD davis eh?
A girl now, Kirsty Hawkshaw, the perfect example of what you shouldn't do in the music industry. She lets a bunch of morons screw her several times instead of using her art as a vector of positive things. She's so talented yet she makes mistake after mistake. What a pity.
Another RECENT example? SASHA wins! He obviously forgot to credit KRISTER LINDER properly when promoting CUT ME DOWN. In case you don't know, Krister is an immensely talented guy, do a search on youtube, you'll see. His latest album was awesome, and biggest of it all, it's FREE! Unfortunately he turned down a collaboration with me, I understand the bells and whistles of such hyped dj, but when you see how he got treated and what I had on offer, you might wonder who had the best one. Anyway, his decisions, not mine...
And I know dozens of examples like this in the US only, where people and especially EDM guys have no morality/ethics anymore. Sign of times.
I find few people interested in investing money on a EDM show featuring a hundred musicians who are being treated with respect and ethics, yet those same people who say no pay 50k for hiring big dj's... You see the pic?
Fed up with it? so am I, and we're not alone. Thousands of noobs come tell me that's the way it is now?!? Hello? Are we talking about music or money and fame? If you want to make big money, get into finance, or anything else that brings money in, music does NOT. Forget what you see on tv, most of it is a bunch of lies. Those N00bs need a lesson. In the feodal system put together by some powerful "artists" they will never make it big.
It will feel very good in a few weeks... |
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