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Bridging the gap between pa and mixing (combining electribes w/ CDjs live)
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| Dojomaster26 |
This is one of those threads that could also exist in the production forum...
So I'm trying to spice up my sets. I have two electribes, an er-1 and an ea-1. The er-1 is a drum machine, and the ea-1 is an analog synth. I also have a pair of cdj-200s and a numark dxm06 mixer. (I know the mixing gear needs an update, maybe in the near future.)
What I want to do is mix some funky and electro house with CDjs and also mix in some live performance with the electribes, maybe with a laptop running reason in the future.
The only problem is that my mixer, the dxm06, is a 2-channel mixer. The mixer has been good for plugging my CDjs into, but a little cumbersome when I'm also trying to switch between the CDjs and the electribes. There are a couple of issues in particular:
- the electribes are phono devices. If I want to switch to playing on the electribe, I have to switch that channel to phono on two different places on the mixer (top and back.) the big problem with this is that the signal strength from the electribe is much stronger than from the CDjs, so that when switching i also need to re-adjust the gain and fader levels. This might make transitions from CDjs to electribes less-than-smooth, and I risk blowing a component during repeated switches.
- because I'm on a 2-channel mixer, I can only swap to one device at a time. That means that every single electribe swap will involve mixing into just the synth or just the drum machine. I would like to just have my electribes going when I mix into them, instead of potentially killing some energy by having to build up from just one of the units.
I really want to upgrade to a 4-channel mixer, but I haven't found any mixers that have the inputs or outputs that I want. There are production-specific mixers that take line-inputs (guitars, electribes, mics) and there are mixers that are geared to djs (line and phono inputs for CDjs and turntables). I would love to have a mixer that took both RCA and 1/4" line inputs at the same time, but I can't find any! I guess any old 4-channel mixer will do for this setup, but that means that I would have to keep using adapters to plug in my electribes. I don't want to buy a separate production-gear mixer; having two mixers just seems wasteful. Finally, having some Xlr outputs instead of just a RCA output would be awesome, eliminating another adapter from the rig.
Does anyone have experience with this type of setup? Any mixers that you can recommend that have the plug-ins that I need to run both electribes and at the same time sans-adapters? any general advise for doing this kind of thing? I know it's a bit out of the norm, but I'm really excited to try it out :) |
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| andydavey |
Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, the Electribes' outputs are standard line level. This would explain why you're getting a massive increase in volume when switching to them from your CDJs - the phono preamps in the mixer are designed for much lower level signals with the bass cut and treble boosted, so will amplify them and apply a bass boost/treble cut.
Regarding your question about adaptors, I can only assume you're using 1/4" jack - 1/4" jack leads then putting RCA adaptors on the end of those? There's no need to look for a mixer which has a mix of 1/4" jack and RCA inputs - the Electribes have unbalanced consumer level outputs, so they're exactly the same as your CDJs, just with a different connector. Simply buy the right leads (like this) and then you can use any DJ mixer in budget without the need to use separate adaptors. |
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| DJ RANN |
Hey Dojo, good to see a post about the 'Tribes!
I have an old ES1 and it's great fun. Still to this day, it's one of the most fun pieces to use and play with.
You're right about the electribes - even though they are line level )not phono (RIAA) level, they do drive quite hot, at least hotter than my CDJ's.
You really need to get a 4 channel mixer - it's really not a workable situation without 4 channels, especially with 2 tribes.
I use the Vestax PMC 55 which is a 4 channel, 10 input mixer and gives me super connectivity and flexibility, not to mention is one of the cleanest sounding mixers ever made.
I have the CDJ's setup normally and the tribe going in to one of the channels with the gain staging already setup - that way no nasty surprises or changes in level.
The only slightly difficult thing with the tribes (even though you can sync them to each other perfectly) is that they only do a .1 BPM resolution (one 10th). This can get a little tricky to beatmatch against a CDJ, so make sure you do most of your BPM matching on the CDJ rather than the Tribe.
You'll be hard pushed to find any dj mixers with TRS inputs - I just use TRS (tribe) to RCA cables (mixer). The only mixers with TRS are live sound mixing desks, but they don't usually have RIAA amps so won't work with TT's (but will with CDJ's).
I would suggest getting a xone or vestax with more channels, and either of these should give you balanced outs as well.
let me know if you've got any more questions! |
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| Brandt Slater |
I've connected the EMX-1 directly to a Yamaha 01V96, plus CDJ's and TT's.
I used these guys for the TT's
http://www.radialeng.com/di-j33.htm
It's an extreme set up but at the time I didn't have any of my DJ mixers. As RANN pointed out the A&H Xone lines would do the trick. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Brandt Slater
I've connected the EMX-1 directly to a Yamaha 01V96, plus CDJ's and TT's.
I used these guys for the TT's
http://www.radialeng.com/di-j33.htm
It's an extreme set up but at the time I didn't have any of my DJ mixers. As RANN pointed out the A&H Xone lines would do the trick. |
That's nice but at $220 per TT, plus $1000 for the 01v96 (second hand!) that's way more expensive than a decent 4 channel mixer. |
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| Brandt Slater |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
That's nice but at $220 per TT, plus $1000 for the 01v96 (second hand!) that's way more expensive than a decent 4 channel mixer. |
I was just using this as an example. The o1v was the only thing I had available. I was thinking if he had an old mackie or something like that laying around he could use that as a temporary thing with a couple TT pres or DI's. Not necessarily the Radial ones but something similar and less expensive. |
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| Dojomaster26 |
First off, sorry for telling you the wrong cable types. I feel like a real n00b right now, because I didn't know that there was more than one type of 1/4" cable, or the names for those cables. I've only had to deal with RCA and XLR cables until now!
This page is helping to sort me out: http://community.musiciansfriend.com/docs/DOC-1724#5
I just checked my Electribes' connections again, and it looks like I am using a TRS (two strips 1/4") to dual RCA adapter. The TRS cables are hooked into the headphone jacks...so yeah, this setup is ghetto! I'm getting those dual-phono -> RCA cables asap. I didn't realize those were available, so thanks!
[noob mode]Ok, just making sure that I need to have TS 1/4" phono cables to get the main output from these units. Are those Mono cables, since it looks like each output uses two of them, so each one carries a different channel just like the RCA cables do? Am I correct here, or do the cables still need to be TRS?[/noob mode]
| quote: | | I was just using this as an example. The o1v was the only thing I had available. I was thinking if he had an old mackie or something like that laying around he could use that as a temporary thing with a couple TT pres or DI's. Not necessarily the Radial ones but something similar and less expensive. |
I don't, but thanks for the tip. Its about time to upgrade my mixer anyway. I am going to miss the EQ kills on my DXM, but the upgrade will be worth it.
| quote: | Hey Dojo, good to see a post about the 'Tribes!
I have an old ES1 and it's great fun. Still to this day, it's one of the most fun pieces to use and play with.
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I'm thinking of getting an ES-1 to complete the setup. I was watching some videos of it in action the other day, and yeah, that is a sick machine!
| quote: |
I use the Vestax PMC 55 which is a 4 channel, 10 input mixer and gives me super connectivity and flexibility, not to mention is one of the cleanest sounding mixers ever made.
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I saw that the PMC 55 is discontinued, and the PMC 280 is the new version of that mixer. It does look solid, and I like that its under my budget. If I get this mixer then I can get my headphones upgraded as well and still have money leftover for the ES-1.
I am looking at these mixers right now:
Ecler Nuo 4
Allen & Heath Zone:42/62
Pioneer DJM-700
Korg KM-402
I don't need any of the extra MIDI or software controls that the higher-end 4-channel mixers are now boasting. I do want to get something that I won't regret that I can use for years to come. My budget is between $700-1000, maybe a bit more if I have to spend it, but I'd really like to have money left for other upgrades too.
The Korg KM-402 is enticing, but I'm cautious because it seems too good for its price tag. The built-in Kaoss Pad is sweet, but I have seen people complain about the faders. I don't have much experience with non-Pioneer mixers besides my Numark. I am looking forward to heading into Charlotte in a couple of weeks to try these mixers out so that I can figure out which one to get...
| quote: |
The only slightly difficult thing with the tribes (even though you can sync them to each other perfectly) is that they only do a .1 BPM resolution (one 10th). This can get a little tricky to beatmatch against a CDJ, so make sure you do most of your BPM matching on the CDJ rather than the Tribe.
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Gotcha. I assumed that the tribes would play at xxx.00 BPM. That makes too much sense, I guess :p
Thanks for the help! |
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| Brandt Slater |
| No problem Dojo. I actually read your post wrong, I was thinking you were in one of those oh situations and you needed something to work right now until you were able to pick up a new mixer. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dojomaster26
First off, sorry for telling you the wrong cable types. I feel like a real n00b right now, because I didn't know that there was more than one type of 1/4" cable, or the names for those cables. I've only had to deal with RCA and XLR cables until now!
This page is helping to sort me out: http://community.musiciansfriend.com/docs/DOC-1724#5
I just checked my Electribes' connections again, and it looks like I am using a TRS (two strips 1/4") to dual RCA adapter. The TRS cables are hooked into the headphone jacks...so yeah, this setup is ghetto! I'm getting those dual-phono -> RCA cables asap. I didn't realize those were available, so thanks!
[noob mode]Ok, just making sure that I need to have TS 1/4" phono cables to get the main output from these units. Are those Mono cables, since it looks like each output uses two of them, so each one carries a different channel just like the RCA cables do? Am I correct here, or do the cables still need to be TRS?[/noob mode]
I don't, but thanks for the tip. Its about time to upgrade my mixer anyway. I am going to miss the EQ kills on my DXM, but the upgrade will be worth it.
I'm thinking of getting an ES-1 to complete the setup. I was watching some videos of it in action the other day, and yeah, that is a sick machine!
I saw that the PMC 55 is discontinued, and the PMC 280 is the new version of that mixer. It does look solid, and I like that its under my budget. If I get this mixer then I can get my headphones upgraded as well and still have money leftover for the ES-1.
I am looking at these mixers right now:
Ecler Nuo 4
Allen & Heath Zone:42/62
Pioneer DJM-700
Korg KM-402
I don't need any of the extra MIDI or software controls that the higher-end 4-channel mixers are now boasting. I do want to get something that I won't regret that I can use for years to come. My budget is between $700-1000, maybe a bit more if I have to spend it, but I'd really like to have money left for other upgrades too.
The Korg KM-402 is enticing, but I'm cautious because it seems too good for its price tag. The built-in Kaoss Pad is sweet, but I have seen people complain about the faders. I don't have much experience with non-Pioneer mixers besides my Numark. I am looking forward to heading into Charlotte in a couple of weeks to try these mixers out so that I can figure out which one to get...
Gotcha. I assumed that the tribes would play at xxx.00 BPM. That makes too much sense, I guess :p
Thanks for the help! |
Hold on there for a second....
You're cable terminology is all over the place:
1, phono connectors ARE rca connectors (phono being the British or traditional name for RCA's).
2, TRS ARE 1/4" Jacks but the important bit is that TRS denotes BALANCED - it's Tip, Ring, Sleeve as in TRS. They have three parts; two conductors and one earth.
3, The electribes have 1/4" MONO (unbalanced) connections - they just use TIP and SLEEVE. You can still use a TRS (as the ring is just ignored) but technically, what you need is a 1/4" Mono Jack to single RCA for each output on the electribe. It would be easier however to get 2 x 1/4 Mono Jack to 2 x RCA cable.
Hope this now makes it clear.
Out of your mixer choices, I would go A&H or Vestax PMC. Pioneer have the bells and whistles but I'm not a fan of their sonic, or build quality. The korg one might be OK but I find the Kaoss pad a little gimmicky and if you're heaving bad things about the faders I would stay away as vestax and A&H don't have those issues.
The only slight issue with A&H is that the 64 makes you use one of the channels as an Aux return meaning you lose a channel, which can get annoying with the electribes as you can use them as an FX unit.
That's what I do with my tribe - I have it setup so that i can play or layer perc/basslines/pattern over CDJ/TT tracks, or at the flick of a switch, route the channel or master signal to the tribe and use it as an FX unit.
Let me know if you need any more help and good luck! |
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